012: Cultivating A Customer Obsession: The Art Of Building An Irresistible Brand With Kerrie Fitzgerald

Jen: Hey there, I'm Jen Thyrion and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a former nine to fiver that dove into entrepreneurship eight years ago with zero business experience. I'm a wife, mama of two young girls, boutique owner, jewelry designer, and now the proud owner and coach leading GoldieLinks Permanent Jewelry.

I have a passion to empower fellow business babes. This podcast is made to equip you with everything you need to succeed from actionable marketing steps to digging deep on your mindset. I know firsthand the heart, hard work, and let's be real at times of struggle that makes up this amazing journey. You want to know what has enabled me to shine the brightest coaching plus community here at GoldieLinks.

We share openly educate and lift each other up. Expect to get linked with fellow PJ owners that will do just that sprinkled with plenty of fun along the way. Competition is an old school thought and connection is the way get ready to feel inspired. Welcome to the GoldieLinks podcast.

Hey, it's me. I'm going to jump in here real quick.

Did you know you can have your own Goldie links business? If you've been dreaming about having a successful permanent jewelry business, but you don't know where to start. Or you have a permanent jewelry side hustle and wanna take it to the next level and be a part of something bigger, then I would love to connect.

Just go to ba goldie girl.com, submit your info, and we can see if this is a good fit for you. So it's ba goldie girl.com. BEA goldie girl.com.

Jen: Now back to the show. We are speaking to Kerrie Fitzgerald today. She is a podcaster, author, speaker, and coach. She is your go to girl for everything e commerce. I found her podcast a few years ago called the e commerce society, and I have joined a few of her courses along the way as well.

She started and scaled a dog subscription box and then sold the business. And now she's here to help other e commerce businesses elevate their businesses as well. We talk about creating a cult like following with your brand or your products. We talk about if you want to scale beyond permanent jewelry and add products, how to go about that and what to consider.

This is jam packed full of information. So let's dive on in. Hey Keri, thanks for joining us today. If you want to start off and just tell us who you are and about

Kerrie: yourself. So happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Jennifer. Um, my name is Kerrie Fitzgerald. I'm the founder of e commerce society and it's a educational content.

We have, you know, courses, programs. I have books. I have kind of all the things that help, uh, product based businesses get started or scale. And I do a lot of things in between. But that's a little bit of what I do. A very brief little summary. So much,

Jen: I know. So you have an amazing book called Customer Obsession, which I just got done reading and it's amazing.

So actually diving right into that because I feel like that's the one thing you do talk so much about, is creating a brand. Or product that is like cult like, right, cultish. What do you feel? I know this is a large, like sub, you know, there's so much in there, but what are like the pillars of creating a customer obsession with your brand?

Kerri: So I think with, with customer obsession, I think the biggest thing that you have to understand whether, you know, you're a permanent jewelry business or you're selling other products of, of any kind or service based business, you have to. Really understand your customers. What drives them to buy from you?

Because here's the deal. I know with permanent jewelry, it's a little bit different. However, you can literally Go on Amazon in the comfort of your home wearing sweatpants or underwear or anything, and you can order any product that you could ever dream of. So you could literally say, I want a personalized bracelet with beads with the initial M or whatever it is.

You can order that from Amazon. It might not be as good as a permanent jewelry business would provide, but anyone can order anything from Amazon and they make it easy to order. In three seconds, you can have a product on the way to your house without leaving your couch, without plugging in credit card information.

They make it idiot proof to buy. And it's really, really important that you understand that concept, because when you understand my customer could literally order from Amazon or go to a competitor. How can I make the experience for them, with them special? How do I make it memorable? All those things. So I think the pillar of customer obsession is how do you connect with your customers?

How do you treat them well and how do you provide such an incredible experience that they have to come back to you? Again and again and again, they have to refer friends to you. They have to post about you on social media because you are that good. So I think that that's like the biggest pillar is how do I understand what my customer likes and how do I connect with them?

How do I treat them really well? How do I provide great customer service? But the biggest, I think the biggest thing is the experience, customer experience. So whether you go into a permanent jewelry store and you're getting jewelry done, it's the ordering process or setting up the appointment. And it's the.

You know, do you send reminders? Do you send automated reminders, letting them know, Hey, your appointment's tomorrow. Don't forget. Here's what to bring. Here's what you need to know. Here's how to prepare for your appointment or whatever at the appointment. Are you maybe encouraging them to look at other products that you sell in the store?

Are you encouraging them? Hey, we have a loyalty program. I saw that you had a great experience today, blah, blah, blah. You know, you mentioned that you love the jewelry. You're so excited. Obviously. This is like silly language to say, but in your own language, if a customer is happy, how do you get them in that moment?

They're at the height, heightened level of excitement. How do you get them to join your loyalty program or for a friend, or take a photo with your really fun studio backdrop with your logo with. And then post it on social media. Like you have to grab a customer when they're at that excited level and like get them to do things for you.

So I would say those are a few of the pillars of customer obsession. I have a different sort of framework on how to create a cult like brand, which I'm happy to talk about as well. But I think with the customer obsession, the biggest thing is like you can't just treat a customer like an ATM. You have to involve them with your brand.

You have to. Do things so they walk away from the permanent jewelry experience or ordering from your website and say, Oh my gosh, like this is the best brand. You know, so with an online store, if you're selling permanent jewelry and you sell bracelets or necklaces, how can you really make that experience of the packaging?

So when it shows up at your doorstep, it's this fun unboxing. So when they open it, they're like, holy S H I T, I'm obsessed. I can't wait to buy again. And another thing too is gift giving. Gift giving is something that happens all the time for everyone. You're always needing a gift for a friend, a sister, your mom.

your coworker, someone on your business team. And when you think, Oh, what, what can I get for them? You want your brand to be first of mind. Oh yeah. Goldie links. Remember that amazing box that they sent me? I'll order them a bracelet done. So that's a huge thing. Cause the more you can get customers to buy more from you, you're making more money.

You're increasing your customer lifetime value without doing any additional marketing.

Jen: I loved in your book, like how you mentioned a, one of the stories that stood out to me was dealing with the unhappy customer. And because yes, cause that is really when I think, you know, as permanent jewelers too, okay.

One of the things we have is when people can come at us kind of angry if a chain breaks or, you know, cause of the word permanent. and insinuates it's permanent. And like, obviously things can happen. Okay. It's not indestructible depending on your chain. It's delicate, like trying to educate people about that.

Because again, if you don't tell people, like if they leave, they're thinking this is permanent and then it broke a week later. Like, so learning how and really taking care of that customer versus again. So if you want to share that story really quick, actually, because I think it just perfectly says like what I'm trying to say.

Kerri: I love it. Um, yeah, there's so many things, but I think for the story that I shared in the book and I, to be honest with you, I'm, I'm kind of forgetting which one I shared, but I'm pretty sure it's the one of the lady who ordered dog toys and then, and they were like

Jen: tore up within like seconds or

Kerri: something.

Okay. Yes. Yeah. So for my, for my business, I, my first business was called the dapper dog box and I had a subscription box business where we. You know, gave customers beautiful, unique bandanas, toys, treats. But then I also had an e commerce store where I sold, you know, one time items, individual items. So this lady bought, I don't know, a couple of dog toys, shipped them out to her.

I get an email from her. She's super, super like psycho angry, like ripping me a new one. These dog toys are the worst. Like I forget what she said, but she was super pissed and I basically responded. And this is sort of something that I learned from. Doing customer service emails for my business. I hated it.

ng, if you have a business in: 2024

And timely, I'm going to use the word timely because you can't respond like three weeks later. You have to provide good customer service to people. And I think the biggest thing that I talk about in the book is literally when you just acknowledge that someone is mad and angry and offer a solution. I will almost guarantee you every single time you will have not only resolve that issue, but they will possibly then even be happy with you, which is funny when someone can email you with a such a psycho email.

And I think people think. They buy a product from a store and then they get the product and they're like, oh, this product stinks. We're so used to now thinking businesses are like an Amazon. It's a faceless brand and we have no personal connection whatsoever. We forget that there is an actual human being.

packing the order, shipping it out. And so people will send really rude emails like without it's alarming. I mean, I'll admit I'm sending emails that are maybe a little snappy sometimes, but they're still nice. They're still respectable. I'm like, okay, listen, people, it's been three months. I ordered the product.

Can I just get a refund? Do you know? Seems normal. But when you acknowledge, when you respond to someone who's mad and you just say, look, I totally get it. I understand. I would be mad too. Here's what we're going to do for you to fix it. And you give them a solution. It's squashed. I promise you like they are no longer mad because I think people are so used to either being ignored.

With customer service emails or the brand in a horrible way responds with something. Oh, well, sorry, we can't help you. Like, sorry, the package broke. That's our policy. No, you have to take care of your customers. If you don't take care of your customers, you will not have a business. You will not. Be able to grow in this day and age with the amount of new stores that are opening with Amazon, with, you know, all these marketplace platforms that make it so easy to order.

You will not be able to grow if you don't take care of your customers. And that story that I talk about in the book, they not only. sent me that rude email. I responded just being like, Hey, I understand. I acknowledge you. I get it. Here's what we're going to do about it. Here's the solution. I think I said, I'll ship you a couple of new things since your dog is a heavy chewer.

Here's what I, like I made it idiot proof for them. I said, here's what I would recommend for you since your dog is a heavy chewer. These one or two toys and we're going to refund your order or something. They responded to me and they literally were like, Oh my gosh, they apologized. I'm so sorry for my rude email.

Then she ordered, she ordered more things right away. She literally ordered more things from me. Just you acknowledging

Jen: you're like. I would be frustrated too. You know what I mean? Because it is. And like, honestly too, you know that like, yes, you get upset when a product doesn't work, but especially like, okay, it's your dog.

It's her baby probably. And she's like, you know, that's, there's a, there's a connection. There's an emotional connection there too. And that's why, you know, even with jewelry, like we, we can get really nasty emails because sometimes it's like, they got a bracelet with their mom and here, you know, that broke.

And like, it's really disappointing because permanent jewelry is like, there is more of a connection piece to it. So there's more significance. And there, it plays more into the emotional response. I think that if you were just to get like a cheap bracelet off Amazon, it breaks, right? Cause you almost kind of assume that it's going to, but when you're spending some money and you expect quality and again, yeah.

Would you say that to someone's face? Maybe like she probably wouldn't communicate with that if you were in front of her, but being. She was all fired up. She, you know what I mean? And she's on her keyboard and like, it's just easy to do. So it made me think of this story because I got my hair done. Okay. I hate getting my hair done.

I get extensions cause I have no hair left after my second kid. So I have extensions and it's the second time that I, she has put them in and they've lifted like within a few days, like literally they're like, they're sticking out of my head. Picture a weave just sticking off the side. No. Oh no. So this happened to me.

That's horrible. So what happened to me, it happened to me in November when she first put them in and then I couldn't get in for, cause of course it's the busiest time with the holidays. So I had to have this like figure out in fashion, put like bobby pins and figure out how it wouldn't like stick out of my thin hair where it gets obvious I have these, or I'd wear a beanie because it's acceptable time of year where I'm like, I guess I'm gonna wear a beanie everywhere.

Right. And I couldn't get in for a couple of weeks too. And it was so irritating. And so when I went in and she fixed it. But like, Okay. She really didn't. Okay. This is the thing. She really didn't. She acted like it was kind of my fault. Right.

Kerri: Yeah. But I

Jen: gave her another try. So I got them done recently. And then I went in literally the two days later after getting them in my head, they're flipping up again.

I had two events for permanent jewelry. I didn't want to wear a hat the whole time. So I'm like so paranoid about covering them. I know there was times where I'm like leaning over to do like welding and it was like pop popping out of my head. I'm like, this is so embarrassing. Right. I have to go in at eight in the morning, wake up my girls early to get into this one appointment to get it fixed ASAP.

She never once said, sorry. She never once was like, it was like she acted again. Like it was my fault. This is the thing. She's so sweet and I like her, but like, I feel like I was bothered by it. Like I kept asking myself, why am I so bothered by this? The fact that like, you know, I'm leaving and I'm like, thank you.

Cause naturally you say thank you. She's like, oh my gosh, no problem. Like, like again, it was my fault. Yeah.

Kerri: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God,

Jen: I kept thinking and I'm like, God, you know, and I, I'm to the point, I told a couple of friends about my story and they're like, Oh my God. And they tell me their customer service stories.

They're like, yes. Like I wouldn't go back to her. I would try to find someone, you know, so important to vibe with your hairstylist. I'm like, well, yeah. And it's honestly like I would have kept going back to her honestly, if she was just more. Like, Oh, so frustrating. This is happening. I'm sorry. Like, because even if a bracelet breaks and someone contacts me, even if it might not be my fault, I always say, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry that happened.

Yes. You went to fix the ASAP. That's frustrating. You know what I mean? Like, so even though I'm not taking ownership, yeah, I broke, I know I didn't break it. You know? And it's not, if it wasn't my weld and the chain broke, that stuff happens, but like people want to be understood and seen. Oh, the fact that I kept thinking about that all day.

I was like, why am I so bothered by the way she was to me this morning? Like here, I'm dragging my little girls and I ate in the morning trying to, you know, and never once acknowledged it. And then I had another friend too recently with a photographer who like was, she was never ending trying to get these photos back from her.

And I think the photographer, you know how it is when you're behind and you. Don't want to respond because you're kind of like, you know, you have nothing good to tell them. And I think that's where the photographer was in my mind as a business owner. I'm like, Natalie, my friend feeling ghosted by this photographer.

She's like, it was so frustrating. Like, she's like, I'm not kidding. It sounds so dumb, but it was my girl's first year photos. She's like, it kept me up at night. Like I would sit there stewing about this photographer that would not get back to me. And she's like, finally she did apologize. Like, Oh my gosh, I'm so behind.

She's like, If she would have just told me that in the beginning, I probably would have brought photos with her again because I did love her photography. But the fact that she ignored me, I'm never, ever, because it was stressful. Like, literally, she's like a plate into my mental. Like, I wanted these photos for our Christmas card.

Like, you know,

Kerri: these things mean stuff

Jen: to people, right? Like, so worst, as you know, The worst thing you can do is ignore someone.

Kerri: Yes. You know, I agree. That's the thing though, like, and I love what you just said. Cause that's a really important thing. You said the, your friend, I will never go back to her again.

If she had just probably emailed her initially and said, look, I am in the weeds. I am so sorry. I will get these two ASAP. I'll keep in touch. Let you know the timeline. Like that's all you have. You just have to give people a little bit, just give a little bit. But the fact that you just said that. That's a really important thing because if you have a business, you, one of the biggest strategies in making more money, like there's only like three ways you can make money with a business.

One, you get a new customer. Two, you get a past customer to buy from you again. And then really the third way, there's probably more, but like, these are kind of the three ways for an online business or even an in person business. You get them to buy more from you. So they get permanent jewelry, plus they add on three extra bracelets as gifts or something.

And the more you can do that, you will grow your business. You'll scale your business without doing extra marketing, but it's important that you get a customer. And then you understand how to retain them and that that's where I think a lot of businesses are failing nowadays is that they get the customer and it's like, okay, cool.

Onto the next, I don't care about you anymore. I made a hundred bucks or whatever it is. I don't care now. And I'm going to move on to the next instead of being strategic, taking care of that customer and understanding like. Here's the thing, you have to understand the importance of customer retention and customer loyalty that that 100 that they spent with you will then turn into 300, which can turn into 500.

You have not done any additional marketing. There's no posting on Instagram. There's no emails possibly being sent out. It's just that. Someone remembers that you took care of them and that you did a good job. And if there was an issue with the bracelet, you were like, Hey, no, it's not, it's not, don't apologize.

It's our fault. We'll take care of you. Here's a replacement. And here's like a 10 coupon for next time you come back in or there's so many small things that you can do to keep someone happy. And people remember that shit because there's so many businesses who do not take care of you, you know, and then they never come back to you again.

Jen: Treating people like I think you said kind of earlier, but not like dollar signs, but like people is like, and just how much kindness is literally a strategy. That's how I feel. Kindness is like, you know, when I'm doing a pop up and people come to me and say like, Either, even if they come back and say it was their fault that a, a bracelet broke, people are like, Oh, I'll pay for it.

I don't expect that. Like literally a jewelry ring as permanent jewelers know is very small. You know how much it costs us, you know, product wise to spend my time to reweld something for two seconds. I'm not going to charge you 10 to get 10 from you. Right? So even when someone comes up to me at a pop up that has a permanent bracelet or something, whatever, buy another permanent jeweler.

That they either needed tightened or it fell off and they're asking me to put it back on. I never, honestly, I never charged for that because they're going to remember that more than if I were to charge them 10 or whatever, just to get 10 from them. That took me two seconds. And most likely they're like, Oh my gosh, you're gonna do the free.

And then most likely they'll end up like getting another piece while they're there. I feel like the ripple effect of that is much more worth it to, like you said, to like retain that customer. And who do you think they're going to think of? Or someone asks like. About permanent jewelry area. Most likely you're going to say me because they loved that experience and the fact that I did that for no charge.

Kerri: No, it, there are the small things that you can do that just make a huge difference. And I think, I think the biggest thing is that most companies don't do that. They don't care, or maybe they care about customers, but they don't understand how to put in strategies where. They do take care of them. They care about them, but then they also actually take care of them when they buy, or there's an issue, but people remember that people remember that.

And anytime I've had an issue with a product or there's like an issue with something breaking and they don't. Like, Veda Winter is, it's a clothing company in Chicago or I don't know, somewhere in Illinois. And I ordered a dress from them last year. I love them. Like, talk about a brand. When I went to their website, I said, oh my gosh, every single thing here, like they speak right into my soul.

on it and it's all, you know,: 1960

I'm a speaker. I like. Can I exchange this? And it was like a really tight time frame and they were so nice about it. Their policy stated one thing, but I emailed them anyway, and the customer service person was like, Oh, yeah, well, you know, we'll make this exception for you, da, da, da, da, like you're a new customer.

She was so nice about it. She sent me a new dress. I returned the other one. And the new dress fit perfectly, but they could have stuck to their policy, which said, if you use a coupon on your order, you cannot exchange anything. But they, they didn't with me because I was a new customer and I have now purchased from them.

I can't even tell you how much money I've spent with them over the last year and a half. I mean, multiple dresses. I talk about them all the time on my podcast. I post about them all the time as examples on what a brand is doing right. But if they had just come back to me that one time and said, Oh no, sorry.

And that's happened to me before with other brands where I bought something and they would not let me exchange it, even though it's so small, I will never, if I lost a hundred pounds, I wouldn't be able to fit into this damn dress. And it's still sitting in my closet because they never, they wouldn't let me return it, exchange it.

They stuck to their policies, which were rigid. And I will never order from them again, you know, so it's like those small things human, when you treat someone like a human, you never know who they're going to tell, talk about. Or come back to you and buy again. You know, you have no idea who that person is.

Jen: I know. And not only did they lose you as a customer, but again, like how you talk about other brands and you talk about them so much, word of mouth is like the strongest form of marketing. There's no doubt about it. I mean, honestly, I feel like I can name so many instances where I asked someone who, who came to me and I'm like, Oh, where'd you hear about this?

My friend got something from you again. If they had a bad experience, do you think they'd be telling them? No, they'd be like, Oh my God, thanks. It was terrible. She was so rude. Like, of course, not only did I. gain that customer who hopefully will come back because they had a good experience, but they told whoever who is now a new customer that hopefully can again.

It's like a

Kerri: ripple effect. It is. That's amazing. Just like your hairstylist. You might not go back to her now because she didn't really, and I, I agree with you. If I got hair extensions done twice. And they were not right at two strikes. You're done because I also don't like getting my hair done. I have not gotten my hair done in months now and it's a hot mess.

So no judgment on my hair color today. It's so brassy, but I went to a hairdresser in my town and. I think I went a couple of times and there was a piece in the front like, okay, there's a couple of gray hairs coming in there. Make sure that you get those colored and they like wouldn't be colored and it wasn't working.

And it was very expensive. And I was like, you know what? I, I, I can't go back to you anymore. Cause you're not. doing the things that I want. And I don't know, hair in particular is like, when someone's like touching something on your body, you need to, you need to make sure that it's a good experience. You know, if it's not, you're never coming back.

Jen: Exactly. It's like getting what you want, getting a good experience, but also it's like, you want to make people feel good. The fact that I went back to her and like, I had this feeling that it was, she made this overall feeling of me, like it was my fault. You know what I mean? And I'm like, I don't feel like that.

Like can I be like, all I did was exist and wash my hair. Like that's what I did in the last 48 hours when these started falling out. Like the fact that, you know, I don't want to feel, because again, it's almost like comparing it to bracelet. Okay. Like say someone were to be like, you know, say their bracelet came off.

I'm like, well, what did you do? What did you do to make that bracelet come off? Like, making them feel bad. Like, they don't have to feel bad. No, like, even if it was something they did, that's okay. You know what I mean? But it's like, it was an overall feeling I felt of like, I just didn't feel good. Sometimes you can't even pinpoint it, you know?

You're just like, ugh. Like, I didn't, I didn't feel good. So just like taking, taking care of people and because again, every business is about connection. I'll say that all day long. But like when it's a service though, where you're in, you're literally have to put this piece on somebody. I mean more than ever, how we treat them is like literally like the most that matters.

So when it comes to service, like what we do, and I know you've mentioned this in your book too, like following up with them, which what company ever does that really? When you, you know, you think about it, I started using these new vitamins and they're so good about like checking in with you, making sure you're feeling good.

I'm like, God, that is so cool. Yeah. It's like their, their text thread, you know, and you can respond to them. That is so legit. How do you suggest, I guess, in the fashion that we have it where someone's coming to a pop up or coming to your brick and mortar and like, but a lot of people are doing this on more or less pop ups and private parties kind of thing.

How would you suggest kind of following up? Like what's the best way to like stay in contact with that customer?

Kerri: I think a couple things and it sort of depends like if someone's booking online or if they're coming in in person to book. I would say two things. If they're booking online and you can get their email address.

I mean, email is the easiest thing ever. And you know, with simple, you know, one way is automations where you could have an automation set up where someone, and it would be, I would, for this permanent jewelry, I would have like a specific segment, which would mean like a, a group of people, you would have a segment in your email marketing.

And for anyone who does permanent jewelry in the store, they get a series of emails after the visit. So They're set up. So the day after the visit, there's some like back end things you'd have to figure out to tell the email marketing, like when their visit is because you, I wouldn't recommend doing this manually.

That's way too much. It's cute when you have like three customers, but it's not sustainable. So I, I don't like to give people advice on things that is manual. Cause that's That's not fun, but you'd have to set it up where you would trigger it out the day after their visit and then basically have a series of emails that would go out and it could be something where they get an email maybe once a week for a month.

And basically I would say your biggest goal at that point is just to get them to take because jewelry is something that is visual. Permanent jewelry is something that I would imagine. Is something that you would want to tell friends about your family, your followers. So when you think of a product like that, you think, okay, user generated content, posting on social media, telling friends and family.

So there's kind of like two strategies here. One would be if you have a loyalty program or a customer referral program. Encourage your customers to join your referral program. You could use something called smile. io. It's there's a free plan. It's amazing. You could set it up on your website. If you have a Shopify website, which I only recommend, you could set it up in like an hour.

And then what happens is when you have a customer, you encourage them when they're in the store. Hey, iPad. We have a loyalty program. We would love to give you rewards points for, you know, things. Just like when you go to Starbucks, they put it, they push. their loyalty program in your face. It's written all over the packaging.

If you get a iced coffee, if you get a hot coffee, if you get a baked item like a sandwich or a muffin, it's on the packaging. Join our loyalty program, get free things. So you have to like push it in people's faces, but I would say if it's an in person thing, capitalize on them being in your store and get them to join an email list, an SMS list, or a loyalty program.

In a loyalty program like Smile, there's loyalty for them. So if Every time they buy from you, they get more points towards free things like a discount. And there's also a referral component. So they can basically get a link, a URL that's specific to their account. And if they share on social media on like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, whatever.

Or they tell friends they will get something in return, like free, you know, a discount or whatever. I don't know. You can set it up however you want to, but you're incentivizing your customers to sort of act as like your brand evangelists, but they, they're incentivized to do so. And then they're getting friends and family or followers on social media.

to either become aware of your brand or to buy from you. But email marketing, you would really be encouraging them to follow you on the social channels, post on social media. We want to see a picture of your jewelry. I would really hone in on the pictures or video of jewelry because it's on someone's arm.

They can easily like, they don't even have to show their face. They could just take a quick snippet of. You know, the jewelry posted on Instagram, post on stories, done, done, done. But you want to ask your customers to do that. If you don't ask them, they oftentimes won't. And you could have a simple thing where you could have a photo contest.

Every month you choose one person who has posted about you on social media and they get a free something like you decide what that is. Maybe it's a 20 discount or a free permanent jewelry session. I wouldn't advise a free session, but you know, you can decide something that's cheap and devising. It has to be incentivizing to them.

So, um, I would say those are a few ways and SMS is a, you know, a newer marketing form, but. One of the highest ROIs is in SMS marketing because you're getting someone on where they are at and that's on their phone.

Jen: I'm putting you on the spot, but do you know of an app where, cause again, I've been on many websites where, so I do have SMS, but I have to manually put the number in and it's not associated with like, I do ask on my pop up on Shopify what the phone number is and I have to go in speaking of manually, not the number of women.

Then I have to manually take your phone number and put it in my platform for SMS. But I've been in many websites where it's like, yeah, you know how it like pops up first. It's like 10 percent get your email. And then the next we'll be like, but do you want 15%? And I'm like, well, yeah. So then I put my phone number in.

So do you know the app that is there? What's

Kerri: doing that? It's probably Klaviyo. I think there, there could be other platforms that have that. But Klaviyo is, yeah, cause I set that up for one of my clients, um, last year. We've been using Klaviyo for years, but it's probably Klaviyo. So Klaviyo is the creme de la creme of email marketing for e commerce and online stores.

It is very techie. So to set it up, it can be kind of a pain. Um, I get a lot of people that complain to me about setting up Clevio, but you know, you could look at like, I, I'm not a fan of MailChimp, I'm sorry, but I'm not, but you could look at something like MailChimp as long as there's an e commerce. That integrates with Shopify.

There should be something that you can do to automate it, but if you're having to manually do that, that's definitely something that as you grow your store, just for you personally, I would look into Klaviyo because everything is automated. It's amazing. Automation is your best friend. When you're trying to scale a business, doing anything manually is, it's okay.

When your business is new and you're scrappy and you can't afford things, you're making money. Definitely automation is your best friend. Klaviyo is amazing, absolutely amazing. You can do SMS. You can do all the automations, card abandonment, loyalty things like birthday, like it's amazing. There's so many automation and flows that you can set up.

I love this kind of stuff. I can

Jen: see you're lighting up right now and I'm like, and me, I'm just like shrinking. I'm like, Oh,

Kerri: only because it's one of the few ways, and I don't want to use the word passive income because. If you have a store, if you have a permanent jewelry business, there is no such thing, passive income.

However, if you have automation, email automation set up, so when someone goes to the website and they abandon their shopping cart, 70 percent of people or more abandon their shopping cart for whatever reason. If you have an automation set up, it'll email people and say, Hey, you left something in your cart.

Don't forget. And you will retrieve and recover some of those sales. If you have things like a welcome sequence. So when you have a pop up that says, take 10 percent off your first purchase of permanent jewelry or whatever it is, and you don't have a solid sequence or automation set up that emails that person a bunch of things, you're just missing opportunity to make money.

And so the reason I love email marketing so much is because. So much of it is actually automated. You set it up one time. And then it literally works for you. So there's no such thing as passive income. And I get really sensitive when people are like, I can help you make passive income with e commerce in five minutes with my email thing.

I mean, like it's like semi passive, but you're still, you know, you have to do all the work up front, so I don't like to say passive income, but it's the, one of the highest ways that you can make money semi passively with setting it up one time, it's incredible. So. Klaviyo does a fantastic job of all that kind of stuff.

And it's because Klaviyo is for e commerce. It's for an online store. It's really the most powerful when it comes to that. A lot of people will be using like Flowdesk, for example. And Flowdesk is pretty templates. Everything's pretty. It's really easy, but it's not e commerce. It's not set up for e commerce.

And so you lose all the power that you get from actually Integrating with an email marketing platform that's for e commerce or an online store. So I don't know if that makes sense. No, it does.

Jen: And I'll just say something really quick about email, but also I want to dive into the fact that I do feel like a lot of people listening don't even have a website because when we go into permanent jewelry, you just think like, and a lot of times too, we just go right to social thinking that is like, What you need to market your business is like a social media and you don't really websites are almost quote unquote old school.

So I want to get into that. But before I even get into that, I want to talk about emails and also not being afraid because this goes along with social to not being afraid to talk about things all the time. So it's like, I don't think if they send out one email, it's like, Oh, well, I don't want to bother people.

I told them about that two weeks ago. But honestly, I receive emails from you all the time. And we talked about this and I was actually in a course or kind of a coaching with Carrie in the end of the year. 20 lists left past year about is called website converter. And we spoke about this because actually the other jeweler that was on this in the, within the course with us, I remember her saying about one of the service based businesses we were talking about that we signed up for their emails.

And she's like. I'm not ready yet, but I'm not willing to, because she dusts in on a ton of emails, you know, and I know she has, like, when she's launching something, we would get like two in it, two a day, right? But I'm not ready to like unsubscribe because of course, like, I'm just not ready yet, but I like seeing that she's in my inbox.

Like, I remember her saying that, like, I like to see that she's there. I know that she's there if I need information, I might not open every email. And there was also someone talking about that, a friend for anthropology. She's like, they send out emails. You a day, but she's like, you know, I'm not gonna unsubscribe because yeah, I might not open every one of them, but when I'm interested in ready, I'm going to, and when I'm looking for something specific, I'm going to open that email.

It's almost like, well, if you're selling jewelry, let's say for instance, your open rate might be different depending on times of year, like all the things that you're promoting. It doesn't mean that like. Everyone, someone's going to purchase every time they get the email, but there's, you're staying fresh and you're also the part of education too.

It's like, you don't want to be repetitive, but like, it's just also different aspects of what you say about your business will appeal to different people, if that makes sense. So anyway, I just want to say that before, cause even with social, I think when people are hosting, they think like, Oh, I'm showing up too much.

Like I'm bothering people when really it's like, Sometimes I need to see, and I know there's like a statistic about this of like, you need to see things. Like seven times before you purchase or something, you know, like, like if I had just gotten one email about your program, I would, I'm, we're busy individuals.

Like I might like forget, right. But the fact that it's showing up again and like sharing different parts of your program and like, like certain emails, I don't feel. And then, you know, I'm like, okay, actually, yeah, this looks legit. But if you had sent one email, I most likely would have forgot about it. But why are websites important?

Kerri: Oh my gosh. So many reasons. Say you're only

Jen: a service based, you know, and you do pop ups and parties, that's it. You don't sell a product. You're maybe not interested in selling a product other than permanent jewelry. Why is it still, is it still important to have a website, do you feel?

Kerri: 100%. So there's, I would say many reasons that, so if you're, if you're exclusively wanting to do in person permanent jewelry, many, many reasons that you want to have a website.

One is competition. And I'm going to say competition first, because I think it's important to acknowledge that Even though this, I think, permanent jewelry is still kind of new, there's still going to be more competition opening up around you, and a website shows credibility. A website is where you can showcase your process, past customers, testimonials.

And most importantly, you, the founder of the brand, who are you? Like what do you look like? What's your story? Why did you start a permanent jewelry business? People want to know that. That is a human connection and it's a trust builder. The about us page on a website is the second most open page on a website.

So just think about that for a second. You think, Oh, no one cares about me. No one cares about anything I'm doing. My story is boring. It's not. And that's one thing that I, when I talk about how to create a cult like brand, your story is the, the most important thing of a cult like brand, at least. You know, maybe we're not talking about like Glossier or something because they're kind of been around for a long time.

But for a smaller business who is trying to create that like cult connection with people, you have to show your face. You have to share your story. I don't mean your life story. I just mean the story that impacted why you started a business. What kind of life changes were you going through? Did something happen in your life?

Did you decide, Oh my gosh. My corporate business is making me want to jump out a window and I've always loved jewelry and I want to do that. Or I got out of a bad something in my life and permanent jewelry is my chance of starting a new chapter in life. Like whatever it is, talk about it, share it, because that is the connection point with people.

People love to know that and people want to know why they should buy from you. So I think competition and like connection is a huge thing. The second thing is. people discovering you via search engines. So this is actually probably the most important thing, especially as this space gets more competitive.

But if you have a website, one, you're able to be showing up on Google search. And one of the first things that people do when they want to find something or get more information is they go to Google and they type in Permanent jewelry business near me. And if you don't have a website, no one is ever going to freaking find you.

So yes, your Instagram account may pop up if your stuff is optimized. However, Google is a search engine. It's the world's biggest search engine. When you have a website. that is telling Google what you sell, you will show up higher on the search engine results page, which is basically the page that you type things in.

How do I get permanent jewelry? And then you get a bunch of the listings. So search is the most important thing. If you want to have a business that grows, that is making money and that's getting traffic. literally foot traffic into your store. If you don't have a website, you're missing out on a huge opportunity.

And I would, if you take nothing else from this episode, take this piece away, get a website, go to shopify. com. There's free trials, I think for, I don't know, seven or 14 days. I know that they have different promotions where you can. Get started for like a dollar. They have free themes. They are no code.

They're drag and drop. They're easy ish. I have a little training. It's like, I think 30 or something that walks you through how to set up an entire Shopify store, the backend, the payment. It's a no brainer. You could probably also find resources on YouTube and you can get a website set up with basic information, what services you offer.

So, you're going to have some before and afters, your process, your story, and that's it. And then have your address. Tell people what hours you do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let people know how they can order from you, learn more information. And then the other thing that you can do as well if you have a website is you can start creating blog content.

I know you're like, Oh my gosh, no, I don't want to do blog content. And blogging is like some old thing, but it's not because again, One of the things I teach people is organic marketing strategy. You have to tell Google what you sell and who it's for. Blog content is information that you can put up that answers people's questions.

So someone goes to Google, they type a phrase in, you create a blog that talks about what the answer is to that question. So what are the difference between, uh, like the gold plated verse for mail verse this thing? Like that could be an easy blog posts that you create creating things that go up on Google.

And so when someone goes to Google to search for something matches your blog to that person who's searching for something. So in the end, like the long rambling point here is that it helps people discover you via a search engine and the more blogs and things of that, that you put up, the more likely you are to show up for.

those keywords that people are typing into Google to find you. So it's going to help you basically get visibility and discoverability. And that's one of the most important things. If you want to build a brand that isn't reliant on social media, you have to do that blogging SEO website stuff. And you could do it in a simplified way.

That's cheap, low cost. It doesn't have to be. You know, I think one of the questions that people ask me all the time is like, well, don't I need to pay like 10, 000 for a website? Hell no. And I would not recommend you do that. You can literally do it for free or for minimal cost. There's so many ways to be scrappy about things until you're making money and then you invest in a better website.

But You will not regret having a website. Shopify, in my opinion, is 100 percent the way to go. But, um, there are other places that you can build a website as well. So, um, I would say those are a few reasons why a website is very important, but it is essential and it makes the business look legitimate.

Jen: Yep.

And I think too, like you said, it just seems daunting, like to be like, Oh God. Oh, but really it's like you said. There are so many resources now. I can't tell you how many times I've been on YouTube for simple Shopify questions. Shopify is user friendly, but still I'll run into things and Shopify chat is also awesome.

They're so helpful. But even for me, I found a template, which I can share and. I can't remember the name right now. And there is an option where you can pay a little extra and she'll like install it in the theme for, it's not 10, 000. I would say like, yeah, all in all of buying the theme and having her install is maybe like 400.

And it's, it's doable, but even if you don't want to go there yet, like you said, you can buy a free theme and just plug things in and just start somewhere. You know what I mean? Like just start and then just grow. If social media, like we said, were to like poof, go away, or honestly people get hacked all the time and lose their whole.

Then you're where your customers like they're gone, you know what I mean? And that's so I feel like you said, legitimacy is a big one. It's almost like, I guess you have to think about like, where do you want this? Do you want this business to scale? Do you want this business? Is this a beer? Is this a business, you know, and kind of thinking about that, you know, because you don't want to look back and be like, man.

I wish I would have started this to like an email list two years ago, you know what I mean? Or a year ago, like how many more where you could have been, I guess

Kerri: at that point, you know, that's probably the biggest thing I hear from people who have in person stores or they do in person markets or they have pop ups is I didn't get any of those email addresses years worth of.

Emails that I could have captured. You have to ask people when they're in your store, you whip out, make it easy for them, whip out an iPad or say, Hey, um, I'll give you the link. You can bring a QR code over on something and say, here, scan this, join our email list. Next time you come in, you get. 10 percent off, 15 percent off, free gift with purchase.

Like think of something that is incentivizing for them to join your email list. No one wants to join your newsletter. Okay. Let's just say that no one wants to join a crusty, boring newsletter, but what they want is they want an incentive, a discount, something like give me something. Otherwise I'm not going to join your dumb newsletter.

So I just want to say that because I see that on websites every day. Join my newsletter. No. Thank you. No, don't. Just get rid of that. Just get, choose an incentive, 10 percent off, free bracelet, free something, free coffee. I don't know. Just give them something that's not a newsletter. Anyway. Rent over.

Jen: Hey there.

Did you know that I offer a permanent jewelry membership? It's everything you need in order to scale and elevate your permanent jewelry business. Marketing scripts, Canva templates, photo, video, supplier list, support, business expert masterclasses, bonus trainings, constant discount on GoldieLink's permanent jewelry supplies, and trust me, there's even more.

It is updated monthly and it costs less per month than what your customer pays for one permanent bracelet. I hope to see you in there. If you're interested and want to find out more information, go to GoldieLinkSociety. com and now back to the show. When you mentioned people are Googling, is there a resource or anything we can, where you can go to and see what people are Googling about permanent jewelry perhaps,

Kerri: or?

Oh yeah, you can go to go. So there's a couple of places. My favorite. SEO. So search engine optimization is uber suggest. So uber suggest. com and you go in there, you can do a free trial. I want to say seven or 14 days. It is an incredible tool. Incredible. You can use it for free as well. You get three searches per day.

So I would say if you're wanting to really hone in on like what are customers searching about. dedicate a day of your week one day, sign up for Uber, suggest the free trial, and then double down and utilize those seven free days and then cancel if you want to. So I would recommend that. And then basically just dive into the, the keyword tool they have.

So they have a keyword tool where you can plug in permanent jewelry, and it's going to give you things that people are searching for or, or. Keywords that pop up and it will tell you how many people are searching for that specific keyword every month. So it's really, really, really, really, really powerful and you wanna understand what people are actually typing into Google and and searching for.

There's also a tool called Ask the public.com. That's a really cool tool. I don't know if they have a free trial or not, but again, you always, but these tools, you always get like. One search free per day or something as the public is really freaking cool. You can plug a search term in and then it basically spits out this huge list of different phrases like the who, the what, the why of what questions people are asking.

So why is permanent jewelry important? What is permanent jewelry? Who is permanent jewelry for like, that would just be an example. And then you can basically take this list of things and you could create content around that. It doesn't have to be a blog post. It could be a post on Instagram. It could be a TikTok video.

It could be whatever a YouTube video. If you want to, I love you too for product. businesses. But you're basically answering questions that people are asking when it comes to your products. And that's it. And that's like the secret sauce to ranking on Google for specific things. But you have to understand what people are actually searching for.

It's not enough to assume what people are searching for. You actually need the data. So UberSuggest is my go to. It's I, I've been using it for years. I absolutely love it. There are other ways that you can get that kind of information, Google keywords. It's like a clunky way of doing it, but you can do Google keywords.

You could go into Pinterest and you could type in some of that stuff in Pinterest. It's not the same as Uber suggests, but like if we're looking at like fluffy ways of understanding what people are searching for, you go to Pinterest, you could type in permanent jewelry and just see what either blocks will pop up underneath.

And that is actually telling you what they're searching for. Even google. com. If you go to google. com type in permanent jewelry and then you'll get a bunch of things that will pop up underneath. It's actually. Those are things that people are searching for. So you can kind of use those things, but UberSuggest is an actual tool that will tell you, and it will then also give you content ideas.

So if there's something with permanent jewelry and I don't know, something specific, like. I'm blanking on what thing I could give it as an example, but something within permanent jewelry. It will then filtrate a content ideas for you that you could then take and write into a blog post. And they now have an AI, a generative AI tool built in that will actually help you write a blog post.

So it's really just a, it's a no brainer. It's a no brainer. I mean. It's a great time of life to start a business because with all these new AI things, they take all the guesswork away from you. They really do. They make it easy, but yeah, Uber suggests 100 percent the way to go.

Jen: And then as for like, you know, someone listening who is interested in scaling their business and say they want to maybe thinking about adding a product, what do you suggest?

What is, what is the first step, I guess, in deciding? What a what product that is and how to go about

Kerri: doing. So I wouldn't say since you have people coming into the store, talk to your customers. That's it. That's the only thing I would say to do. Talk to your people in there. Understand what else could we sell that you would want to buy every person that comes in.

You either have them, you talk to them for like a couple of minutes while they're getting their jewelry done, or you have like an assistant come and talk to them or something, or after they pay, you could say, Hey, we're thinking of, you know, launching a couple of new products for the store. Do you mind chatting with us for five minutes and just giving us, we would love to hear what you think.

Always make it about them and make them feel like. Hey, we're a business, but we really actually care about you. We want to know like what else you would want to buy or whatever. Just talk to your customers. That's it. Just get them. Ask them what else, even with permanent jewelry, like what problems are you having with permanent jewelry or actually no, don't talk to them about that when they're in the store, but Maybe keep a mental record of, like, what problems come up with permanent jewelry because then that's, those are great content ideas, but yeah, I would talk to them about, like, what else, you know, we're thinking of doing these bracelets or these necklaces, like, which ones would you be into?

Where do you currently buy that kind of stuff? Like just understand what they want and what they would want to buy. And then I think there's like a lot of ways of adding a physical product. I mean, you could sell things in the store. You could create an online store. I'm obviously a fan of online stores.

It's, you know,: 2024

But I mean, I don't know if you mean like where they should buy the products, but you know, there's like alibaba. com. There is, you know, U. S. suppliers and wholesale places that you can buy jewelry from. So there's definitely like Alibaba. com, if you're wanting to buy overseas, probably going to be the most affordable.

Um, I'm not sure what kind of jewelry you're looking for, but that, that's definitely an affordable route. There are some suppliers in the U. S. as well that you can get stuff from. But, um, but yeah, I would say talk to your customers. And then the second way to figure out what product should I sell is leveraging something like Uber suggest.

com and really playing around with words and figuring out what are people searching for online. So like, for example, I'm doing, I did a video recently where I was coming up with 10 product ideas for, um, the swimsuit, the swimsuit, or like. Beachwear industry. Really fun. I took an example from something that someone had, you know, they, they wanted me to do a video on that.

hould think about selling for: 2024

And if you look at the search data, there's like a ton of people searching for it. So leveraging data is your best friend when it comes to a product. If you're investigating, like, what should I sell? What do people want? Leverage data. So go to ubersuggest. com or a different SEO tool and just look up keywords.

What are people searching for? Type in the word jewelry. Then you double down into gold jewelry, seasonal jewelry. You know, things like that. And then you'll figure out really quickly what are the things that people search for. And then you just want to kind of find a supplier that, you know, just like the way that you're getting the stuff from your jewelry store.

Jen: I mean, I think like the fact that we're like in person service, that there is beauty in the fact that you're talking to your customers, you know what I mean? So it's not like you're online. I feel like that's what I learned from my past business into this business is like, I'm constantly listening. I don't take anything they say like.

Like you said, even if it's content or if they're, I'm always getting a constant question. I'm like, okay, I need to cover that more or, but really it's like, even a down to like, maybe you're wearing something people ask because people were asking about my beat time. So I was like, okay, like they're like, Oh, are those permanent?

I'm like, no, these are ones I make, but I'm like, and then I found a way to make them permanent. So I just started doing that where I do make them too. They're not stretchy. They're just a way you can make permanent. So then like, literally that stuff is born all out of what people ask me. And it's like, even though, cause you're so close to your product and you're, and you don't really think sometimes outside of what you're doing.

I'm like, Oh, people would want that. Like, or even, you know, it was a couple people randomly who was like, do you have earrings? I'm like, that's the one thing I don't have. And you're like, Oh, we really love pair of earrings. So then I started to offer earrings. Really well, because they just compliment.

They're the same style as permanent jewelry. They kind of like, you know, are just every day. Everything I think so far that I've introduced, of course, was not something I just thought of, but was asked for. It depends on, like, so many things. It's your customer, it's your area you're in, like, someone in, like, Kansas isn't going to be interested in the same thing maybe in someone in L.

A., right? Like, so it's like, getting to know your area, right? Like, what are people noticing and asking for? And what's the trends in your area? I think, like, that really plays into it, too. Especially being an in person. Service if you wanted to offer the product in person, but also just again, a way of scaling to have it on a website where you can be bringing in money with not being in person, you know, because again, with glory, the only time you're making money is when you're doing the service, I think you get to a point you're finding ways to kind of scale.

And it's like, how can I do that without, you know, outside of just doing events?

Kerri: I agree with you. Another thing too is look for the, um, and this is something that in particular works really well online. When we talk about the three ways that you can basically grow your business, you get new customers, you get a past customer to buy again, and then you get a past customer or a new customer to buy, like spend more money.

And one way to do that is at the checkout process, having an upsell. So in person, you can do that too with all the little things you could have at your counter. And I see a lot of stores being very creative with upselling and I'm, it's very impressive. I love it. I love when people try to upsell me. I'm like, Oh, great job.

Like it actually makes me happy. What you can do online is you have a complimentary product and there's all sorts of tools that make this easy for you. One click upsell is the one that I recommend to people. It's like 30 bucks a month or something. And they have a. Post purchase upsell. It's incredible.

It's incredible. So the upsell doesn't happen at checkout. It happens after you buy. So then you buy the product, buy the bracelet, and then it's like, Oh, Hey, by the way, we also have this bracelet cleaner for 599. And that would go perfect with that. Yes or no? Like, and the, the conversion rate on these are really, really high because someone has already put in the credit card information and they've already said, yes, I'm interested where if you do this.

And the checkout page or the cart page, it has a low conversion rate because it's almost like you're just, you're disrupting someone when they're trying to buy from you. They may not want that upsell. So having an upsell is genius. So like an example of this is recently I bought a box of, have you ever heard of magic cereal?

So I got targeted for their ads last year at some point. And I was like, Oh my God, this is fun. Like, look at this packaging. I'm I, I need to learn more. So I got hit with many ads and finally I'm like, okay, I'm going to buy this cereal and I'm going to do a video on my YouTube account just on. What they're doing that I believe they are a cult like brand.

Like they are literally like the definition of like a modern cult brand. And I bought the box of cereal. It was like 40 or something stupid. I mean, who pays 40 bucks for a box for a four boxes of cereal, not one box. But then. I went to buy and it was like, Hey, we also have this really fun, beautiful purply swirly colored spoon that you can add to your cart for, I forget how much I paid for this stupid spoon, but I totally paid for it because that's why I actually wanted to buy in the first place.

Cause all the, all the ads that I was seeing, people were eating the cereal with a super fun purple spoon. And I'm like, I need that damn spoon. So they didn't offer it. They didn't include the spoon with the cereal, but they offered it at. And it was the perfect product because it's a complimentary product to what you're selling.

And they could have just included it in the box, but they didn't because they're smart. And they're like, no, you want it, you're going to pay for it. And now we're going to make an extra six bucks on every customer who buys, because obviously everybody wants that spoon. It's not a boring. silver spoon. It's a really like, after we get off the call, you'll have to go look it up.

It's so fun, but it's really fun. It's like a big circle, like design that's perfect for cereal. And it's not a boring spoon. It's a fun one. So that's the kind of thing that you want to have on your online store is you want to have in a no brainer complimentary. add on or upsell. So if you're selling bracelets, what else could you offer that customer that is a no brainer that goes with a bracelet?

So maybe it is an earring, but like, in fact, it's probably like maybe a bracelet cleaner or something that people wouldn't would want, you know, it depends on the product, but it has to be a complimentary product. And so that is a really strategic way. to make more money in your business without doing anything extra.

So I love all these little hacks of like, what can you do that can optimize every customer to spend more with you without doing anything on your part? And obviously it's all automated. So I love it. Not only

Jen: the upsell of like the actual sale you're making, but like you're making me think like you can translate that lesson is so many things like the, just experience being memorable of like the spoon, like what other.

Whatever, like cereal company offers this like fun spoon that probably is recognizable if you were to see it. You're like, Oh my God, that's the magic spoon, whatever. And it's like, you know, even with our own brand with posting on social, like what's making you stand out? Like what's only you kind of thing?

What's you, like, what's your brand? What, what, who are you? Like, what's something special that I guess could be recognizable that also plays into their experience. Like even when they're in your studio or you're at a pop up, like what makes it kind of special? I actually did an interview recently with a local permanent jeweler and she's like, I, I, she's big on the experience of like, she's very like Western themed.

Right. So she has like a cow A cowhide, like, little, like, leather patch that she puts on her to protect their skin. Like, there's, these are all things that are like, that's her, you know, and people are going to recognize that and they, they always come, they always talk about it. They're like, Oh my God, you know, like, it's just these little things that plays into the experience again, which again, creates this like, hopefully return customer too.

That's just fun. Like who doesn't? I love

Kerri: that. You got to make, do something that's memorable and that's fun and makes people remember you. Cause I think we're bombarded with information now with, we go on our phone and it's like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, whatever, whatever platform that you like.

And it's just so much crap trying to be sold to you. All these dumb influencers trying to push product on you. It's like we are getting product pushed down our throat constantly by. In order for someone to remember you, they might not remember your name, but they'll be like, oh yeah, that person with the fun spoon.

Do you know what I mean? And then they'll figure out who you are. But it's really hard for people to remember you. You have to do things and set things up so they do remember you. So I think that's a really good point.

Jen: It's like the whole quote of like, you know, people might not remember what you say, but they remember how you made them feel.

Kerri: Oh, I like

Jen: that. Oh yeah. Like, I don't know. It's just like, it's even like, even though it sounds dumb, it's just a spoon. Oh my God. The spoon. Do you see the packaging of that cereal? Cause I know exactly what we're talking about. Oh my God. It just makes you feel like, happy, you know what I mean? It's like, picture, like, would it, would it translate the same if they had boring boxes?

And like, I know you talk a lot about this on your Instagram. You share a lot about, um, what a brand's doing right. Right? When you see a packaging and you're like at a store and you're like, this is what this company is doing right. Grabbing. The attention of the customer that you feel is your, again, your customer that's going to like that cereal or like that, you know, not everyone's going to be attracted to that brand, but it's so unique that it definitely has that right customer is going to be like, yes, that's me.

And everyone wants a colorful spoon, but the people that do.

Kerri: Oh my God, I love it. I'm like, I'm pretty, I'm very super passionate. So when I like something I am like. All in, obsessed, psycho, I'll talk about you every day for like three years, or I don't remember you at all. That's kind of how I am with product brands. And when I first discovered Magic Spoon, I was like, Oh my God, these people are geniuses.

And then when you actually look at their packaging and you look at how they talk about their brand, like I forget. Now I'm forgetting what they say exactly, but it's something like that memorable experience that you experienced when you were a kid with cereal, but as an adult, except it's healthy, it's gluten free, it's grain free, it's free of everything.

And, and they also, they have a really cool thing when you buy from them. And I, I did a video on this and then it got deleted because I switched my, I switched my phone recently and all my drafts on Instagram got deleted. And I was I was pissed about that, but they do a really cool thing where after you buy from them, there's something that pops up and it's like, Hey, you can donate a portion of the sale towards this charity and you can choose.

And so I chose obviously one with animals, but I thought that was a really smart thing. And this is something that I talk about. Um, with being a cult like brand, there's like three specific things that you really want to have in today's age. But one of them is it has to go like a mission, not mission based as in religion, but just a, a purpose driven brand.

One that goes beyond just a physical product. And I thought that that was a really great example, because again, it's not disrupting the checkout process you've already bought from them, but then it's like, Hey, You can allocate some of the sale towards this charity of your choice. And whenever you give choice back to a customer where, you know, they spent money with you, but they still get a choice.

I thought that was really powerful and just really, really smart. So I loved, I think this brand is doing so many things right. And if you're looking as an example, as you're building your own business, even though you're not selling cereal, you're selling jewelry and permanent jewelry. You can always look at a.

A bigger brand and what they're doing to impress customers and just kind of. integrate that into your own business in your own way. I think they're absolute marketing geniuses, like marketing geniuses beyond.

Jen: Yeah. I mean, cause it all comes down to really all the things like listed probably about what your pillars are to with cult like brand is coming back to connection.

It's coming back to like the fact that you're giving, you're giving customer choice to you're not just telling them like, Hey, 10 percent is going to this. Like they have a choice and that's like, Oh, that's a kind of a form of connection. You're connecting with them. Like you're a part of this. And even like when it comes to Instagram, that's why, you know.

It's so great. It's because of course there is a lot of connection within social, but like polls, that's why polls are so amazing. People love to share their opinion. They want you to know they want to be part of the process. That's why B roll stuff does so well behind the scenes stuff because people want to be a part of it.

They want to feel like they're in your living room, kind of a part of this, of this process or this brand. And that just makes them more excited about it. Yeah.

Kerri: I don't know.

Jen: Anything else? I don't know that you want to share. What other things do you feel like is the most important thing for like a cult like following?

I guess.

Kerri: Cult like. I think the biggest thing, I mean, having a good product or service is, is an obvious, like you have to have, you can't be a shitty shop with a shitty everything and expect people to like you. They're not. So that's just an, that's an obvious one. I'm not even going to mention that one. I think the biggest thing is, I'm going to quote that one.

I think the biggest thing is, I know, I like, I really don't like cheap, cheap shops. I think the biggest thing is just is, and you've mentioned this many times with the word connection. I think it kind of comes down to that, but it's really humanizing your brand. You cannot have a faceless business anymore.

I think there's too much of Amazon influenced into the world where, again, Someone might not want to go and spend money getting permanent jewelry, but they can go to Amazon and order a bracelet and order one for their mom. And it's kind of like not the same thing, but I'll just use as an example. So you really have to make it.

So when someone discovers you, they find you on Instagram or they find you on Tik TOK, or they find you on Google, they go to the website, they go to your Instagram, they get a sense of like what your style is, what your vibe is, and who is the, who's the owner of this company. People want to know people want to see those behind.

You said behind the scenes to people want to see the behind the scenes. They want to see what your store looks like. They want to feel that this is an actual human and not a faceless brand like an Amazon. So I think beyond like having an awesome customer experience, all that kind of stuff, humanizing your business, like humanizing it, showing your face, talking about your story.

Sharing why you started the business, like what was happening in your life. If you donate, especially if you donate anything to a charity or any kind of organization, please on God share that. People, nothing gets someone to want to buy from someone if they know the money or at least even a penny of it goes towards a good cause.

That is something that I, I firmly believe in that. To have a cult like brand today, you, there has to be a purpose beyond just the product. So beyond permanent jewelry, what else can you connect in there? Maybe it's you donate 5 percent of proceeds, 1 percent of proceeds. It literally doesn't matter if you're donating like a couple dollars per month, but.

show that you're doing something that gives back or, and it may be, it's like for me, I'm obviously, you know, a huge animal lover. I'm obsessed with dogs. I know you are too. And I am starting another business. I don't actually think I told you this, but I am starting another product based business in the pet industry.

Yes.

Jen: Are you sharing that or no?

Kerri: No, it's not a secret anymore. I haven't really talked about it, but I'm happy, like, if you want to know more, I can tell you. Um, but I am starting another pet business and I am 100 percent going to choose some sort of like donation angle or something where I'm giving back.

Because one, that's a really important thing to me. I did that with my first business, the dapper dog box. I donated to different rescue organizations every month. And for me, that was from day one. And that was one of my things that was important to me. It wasn't just about, Oh, this is going to get people to buy from me.

It was that I want to make an impact on helping dogs. Cause I'm just obsessed with dogs, but two, I learned in the process, Oh my gosh, wow, you have, if you donate money or you donate something, people love that. And people will buy from you. I know I learned that that was one of the reasons that. People did end up choosing me versus other people.

Granted, I had an awesome product. I created an awesome experience. I took care of my customers. So people bought for that, but I think they kept, they came back to me also because they knew that I was donating money to pet organizations or dog organizations. So I would say, if you can incorporate that into your business, you will get a lot of, I think, personal reward from it because it feels really good to be able to donate even a little bit of money.

But people like to support companies that give back. So whatever that means for you, you know, you could do something like that. So just, just my two cents of like creating a cult brand or creating a brand that people like that really people connect with. I think just how can I humanize it a little bit more, show my face, share my story.

And take care of my customers and ask them to come back. Like you have to ask them. You can't just be passive. Don't worry about bothering them. You're not bothering them. They came in in the first place and as long as you did a good job with your stuff and you weren't rude to them, I'm sure they would love to come back to you.

So don't be afraid to ask for the sale. You have a great product. You have a great service. Don't be afraid to ask for it. I think a lot of people are really afraid. to ask for it. But in the end, you have a business. It's not a hobby. Be proud that you offer service that creates connection with people. You know, if they're coming in with their best friend or their mom, like that's a really special moment that you're, that you are facilitating and just don't forget that.

Jen: Yeah. I think it's a mindset thing and you know, checking your, how we say this with, with just checking your intentions behind. Cause like sometimes it can. Well, we're bothering people or that we're, but really it's not about us. It's about them. And if we come back to, it's about them and we're offering something we truly love and stand behind.

And it's actually, we're offering this amazing service or, you know, then if it comes from place of that, then it just selling isn't too, it takes, it takes all the ick out of it, kind of. And even, I actually want to ask you this because there are plenty of people that don't. And it's so funny because even though in the permanent jewelry world, of course, we're like seeing people in person, but some people are very not wanting to show up on their social or what do you say?

To people that feel that way and are just really nervous to show up and show their faces

Kerri: and social. I would say I totally understand four years ago. That was me. And I was terrified to be on video and now you cannot get me away from video. I'm like, Oh, let's do a video with no makeup on. I don't care. I think the biggest thing that I'll say is like.

Acknowledging that it is scary if you are not a video person, and I'm older, so like, I didn't grow up with a fucking camera in my face like these 20 year olds nowadays are. I, so for me, it was very scary. I do not like getting my picture taken in real life. Video, I'm fine, but if you put a camera and try to take pictures, I'm awkward and I'm like, yuck.

I would just say, It's kind of a cheesy thing, but like practice makes perfect. And that's kind of, that's all there is. You have to just do it, rip the bandaid off and just get started. If that means. you know, when you're comfortable, choose a place that has good lighting, take out your phone, find maybe even a filter.

I think some of the filters nowadays are kind of crazy, but like, I think having, I still use filters all the time. I use like the ones that don't make my face look like, you know, blow up doll, but you can get one that just gives you a little, like, Takes the edge off if you're looking a little crummy, like I usually do when I don't have makeup on, you know, just start small, find a little filter that just gives you a little pump up if you want, and if not, that's okay.

And just start with maybe, maybe even like you write out what you want to talk about and you script it out. You don't read from the script, but maybe you read through the script a couple of times on your own to practice. And then you say whatever you need to say. And then you just create a schedule for yourself.

I'm going to show up on stories Monday, Wednesday, and Friday for the month. And then after a month, you'll start to get more comfortable. And then you'll be like, okay, well, I can show up a little bit more now and I can show up and I can do longer videos. But I think. Expecting someone to that has not done video that doesn't isn't comfortable doing video to basically whip out their phone and do 20 stories a day like that's not, that's not practical because you have to build up the, I would say, not only courage, but just come, you have to get comfortable and then.

It took me, I would say, a year of doing video before I was comfortable. And like I said, now it's been four years since I did, you know, I did a little bit of video when I had Dapper Dog Box, but like minimal. And plus, stories back then weren't And I think that's really a thing. They're different nowadays.

s, I started that business in: 2016

No one cares. No one cares more about what you look like, what you weigh, how your hair looks, than you do. The average person watching your stuff literally is not going to say, Oh my God, she looks like shit. They don't. They literally are like too worried about how they look. We're all wrapped up in our own crap that we actually don't care what other people are doing.

We're like, Oh cool. Hey Jennifer. Look at her living room. I love her curtains. Oh, that's a cute shirt. They don't care about your hair, your skin, or whatever else. We care. Like we are so shitty to ourselves and it prevents us from showing up and putting our stuff out into the world. I do that with myself all the time, even today with things.

I'm like, Oh no, I can't do that. I look gross. Or like my hair looks bad or I don't know, whatever. People do not care. So just do it, put it out there anyway. But if it makes you feel comfortable, maybe choose a day and put on makeup or put on something that you feel confident in, and then you can go on a video or whatever you need to do.

But I will guarantee you, the second you start showing your face, sharing behind the scenes, sharing a bit of your life, you don't have to be an overshare. You will see things happen in your business because again, no one wants to buy from a faceless brand. No one. Like we don't buy like that anymore. You know, you don't have to share

Jen: every aspect of your life.

You know, you can almost like choose things you're comfortable sharing. I mean, you don't have to show, you don't have to show your kids. You have to show, you know, if you want to show your dog and that's like, you know, just showing little things where people that get to know you, I mean, even if you like to cuddle.

It also just will feel good and authentic to yourself after a while. Like it'll feel good. Like just to express yourself is most likely if you're in this business, especially in the business of permanent jewelry, where it really kind of is all about connection, people want to connect to you too. So I think that, and for me again, like same practice makes perfect.

I can't tell you how many times I like in the past, I would redo a story a million times because like. I would read myself and I'm like, Oh my God, I say like so much, or I said it like this. I'm like, look, I just put it out there now. It's fine. Also to apps like Marco Polo, they do do Marco Polo at all.

It's an app where you can video talk to people. So you just, you send videos back and forth. And so actually, funny enough, I started doing that during COVID with some girlfriends. And that has made me so much more comfortable because it's weird. You're talking to yourself. You're sending these videos.

You're just talking to yourself. So it's so awkward at first. It actually has helped me be able to communicate more and talk to myself because even though I'm just talking to my friends. It translates to my business. I feel like it helps with social too.

Kerri: Okay. Oh, that's cool. It's helped me practice a little bit.

So you have to do the things that just make you comfortable. And, and you can also just know that you are not going to be comfortable right away. You just have to post the goddamn video anyway. Like even if you look crappy, post it. It doesn't matter. No one cares.

Jen: Totally just think that no one, I don't know why we get stuck in this where like no one like there's some people that just are good right away, you know what I mean?

It doesn't happen like people have learning curve. Everything we do is not, most likely is not easy the first however many times, you know, but I think we see these other people that are so much further in their journey and they're like, Oh my gosh, their videos are so amazing. And they seem so easy talking.

Cause I, people have told me that too. They're like, Oh my God, you communicate so well in your stories. And like, I've always, I haven't always been like that. You know, it's taking some practice for sure.

Kerri: Yeah, it does.

Jen: Well, it's so good chatting with you. I feel like we could go on forever and I'm sure I'll have other stuff, especially when you're have your other company, like your other product launch to talk about your experience growing that would be

Kerri: really cool.

Oh, I would love to. I'm so excited.

Jen: And. I feel like you also have like a tech thing going on, right? This is a woman to follow. She is like one for

Kerri: all the year of evolving. I thought my word was simplify for the year because I was going to simplify my, my current business. But in fact, I'm actually Shrinking my current business and expanding and other things.

So my word for the year is, is evolved. I love that. Taking all my knowledge from the last eight years of being in like this product e commerce space and just creating something that I think is going to really help a lot of people who sell online just with strategy and like knowing what to work on. So I'm also someone like you who I listen.

I, I'm like that person in the corner who. When I meet you in real life, I'm actually really shy. I'm super introverted, even though I don't seem like it when I record with people. I'm really introverted, but I pay attention. I listen. I'm always just thinking, how can I create something that's better than what is happening right now?

with the tech idea in May of: 2023

Like I feel like business is so hard and why, why does it have to be so hard? So hopefully what I'm trying to create will make business feel more fun. I love it.

Jen: TBD. I have to say, like, I'll end up with Carrie, how I found her too. And I can't remember even what year it was. When I first started my boutique business, there was really not anyone, granted I listened to podcasts.

before they were cool. I feel like it's been a long time. Actually, Pat Flynn, Gary was on recently. He was one of my first podcasts I listened to and I didn't have a business yet. I was, I was a massage therapist in Vegas. I got to the point where I would get, I was so bored with doing massages. I would put, and this is before AirPods, I would fish headphones in my ear while I gave massages and I'd listen to podcasts.

I know. Wow. And so, and I always knew that I like, liked, I wanted to be an entrepreneur or have a business. I just didn't know what it was at that time. But anyway, so Pat's one of the first ones I listened to, but product based business podcasts was not, you couldn't find it. If I would have had your podcast when I first started my business, cause it was, you know, it, a lot of them are, you know, business podcasts are more about service based business I found.

So Carrie was just, it was awesome. I, again, I. How long have you had your

Kerri: podcast? It's been three years now. Over three years now.

Jen: Okay. I feel like then I found you right in the beginning. That's how I feel because I've probably listened to you for over three years. I love that. It's been helpful because you know, there isn't as many product based, like I said, like help out there.

And I feel like you're just a wealth of information. So tune in. So speaking of that, where

Kerri: can we find you? Well, thank you so much. Um, I do have a podcast. It's called, it used to be called the six figure product business podcast, but it is now called e commerce society podcast. So definitely you can check out that if you're wanting just some, you know, business advice.

A lot of the stuff I talk about. Is a hundred percent applicable to someone who's doing permanent jewelry. My website, kerry fitzgerald.com. K-E-R-R-I-E and then Instagram Kerry dot a dot Fitzgerald. And you can definitely send me a DM and let me know what you're struggling with. And I have a billion resources, so much crap out there in the world.

nched that book in October of: 2023

. And I sold that business in: 2019

You can literally read it in one afternoon. And yeah, so those are some ways that you can find me, but thank you for having me. It was so nice to chat and talk about all the amazing things that I love to talk about. So. Thank you so much. so

Jen: much. Well, we'll catch you next time. Well, how do you feel? I hope you found value in today's episode and you walk away feeling inspired.

I would love to hear from you. Let's link up. You can find me on Instagram at GoldieLinksSociety. You can find out more about our permanent jewelry membership at GoldieLinksSociety. com. Our handmade permanent jewelry supplies of connectors, chain, and more at GoldieLinksSupplies. com. Okay, I will see you next time.

Have a golden day.