032: From Law Books to Welders: Liv's Journey to Building a Thriving Permanent Jewelry Biz

Jen Thyrion: Hey there. I'm Jen Thyrion. I'm so glad you're here. I'm a former nine to fiver that dove into entrepreneurship eight years ago with zero business experience. I'm a wife, mama of two young girls, boutique owner, jewelry designer, and now the proud owner and coach leading Goldie Links Permanent Jewelry. I have a passion to empower fellow business days.

This podcast is made to equip you with everything you need to succeed from actionable marketing steps to digging deep on your mindset. I know firsthand the heart, hard work, and let's be real. Hey, there, it's me, Bridget, and welcome to the Goldie Links podcast, where we talk about how you can be the best you can be, and how you can be the best you can be, and how you

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Stay at home moms that create on their own time between raising their children, serving as a self care creative outlet and supporting their families. Your items come with signage on how these supplies are made along with gemstone property info, as each gemstone has a special meaning. If you want to level up your business with handmade supplies, not made by a machine, but made by hand with love, then check it out at goldilynxsupplies.

com. Now onto the show. This sit down with live from the pink welder podcast has been in the works for so long. We're finally doing it. I loved learning more about live. She's a busy woman with a brick and mortar permanent jewelry location. A podcast, obviously. And she's in law school. There is nothing this girl cannot do.

We talk about all things permanent jewelry with a little true crime on the side. You're gonna love this convo with Liv. Hey, Liv. This is finally happening. I'm super excited to, like, sit down with you today. After many tries at coordinating our very busy schedules. I know. It's been insane, but we're finally doing it.

So you just wanted to, like, let people know who you are and a little bit about yourself. What would you like people to know? Yeah. Absolutely.

Liv Murphy: Yeah, so my name's Liv. I'm from Tennessee. Well, I'm originally from Michigan, but I live in Tennessee, and I live in Knoxville. I have been doing permanent jewelry for almost two years, and I'm currently in law school.

I'm in my first year of law school. Very exciting. And I also have a permanent jewelry podcast called The Pink Welder.

Jen Thyrion: That's amazing. So, first of all, we have that connection, too, that we're both from Michigan, which I also think is so crazy. Yes,

Liv Murphy: very fun, very fun.

Jen Thyrion: And you go very often. We actually, at one point, were going to do a podcast episode in Michigan.

In person, yes. Because you're going to be getting to fly, which is crazy. So, tell me about that, like, what brought you to Tennessee, like, tell me a little bit about your, like, past before permanent jewelry and what led you to permanent jewelry.

Liv Murphy: Yes. So, I grew up in Michigan. I was born in Michigan. I grew up in Michigan.

I lived in Florida for part of my childhood, but I primarily grew up in Michigan. And my grandpa and my grandmother, both from Tennessee. And they are big University of Tennessee people and I, when I was a senior in high school was going through a very rebellious phase where my parents told me one thing and I was going to do the other.

And so when it was a time to apply for colleges, they basically, you know, are like, okay, where are you going to apply? And I listed off like eight places. I only applied to one college. I applied to Tennessee only, which looking back was horrible. Like, I kind of know what I was doing, but I was like, I'm going here.

omics and then I graduated in: 2023

And then I took a gap year, and after I graduated, I was sort of like a lot of people, I think, after they graduate or quit a job are like, now what? Now what do I do? And so, my boyfriend and I had gotten permanent jewelry. We were doing long distance at the time, and we got, we didn't know it was an MLM, but we got permanent jewelry from an MLM.

And it was, I'm not, I won't say the name, but it was, they don't weld it on.

Jen Thyrion: Yes, yes. It's

Liv Murphy: very interesting because the, the chain comes in like pre cut little baggies. Oh, interesting. So like you have Yes, which to me is like I had no idea. You're, you're wasting, right? So we got there and there were some other people there and she was like, okay, like, do you want a bracelet or an anklet?

And we both got bracelets, but there wasn't enough. It's like There wasn't two of the same chain cut, so I got, like, some, I got, like, a curb chain, he got Figaro. But it was so weird because I remember there was a girl like, actually, can I switch to an anklet? And she's like, no, I don't have any, like, anklet baggies with me.

And it was just, like, so weird because it's not on the screen. Cool. It's not on this pool. It is so weird. And I'm sitting here thinking like, this, this is not how I saw. I, I don't think it's supposed to be like this. And then they weren't, they didn't weld it on. I'm like, that's it. You just, that's it. Like I could have had like, anyone

Jen Thyrion: do this really?

I mean,

, like the beginning of: 2023

So, yeah. The unbranded welder, which electrocuted me, so I quickly, I quickly had to buy my own welder, but I sort of have started and never looked back and now I have a permanent jewelry studio and three employees and I'm in law school and I do pop ups and events and all that. Going strong.

Jen Thyrion: So what attracted to you about like just starting it as a permanent jewelry?

Like, cause obviously what I hear is you had no experience, like obviously with jewelry or like owning a business. Yeah, no. So

Liv Murphy: like. I actually did have experience owning a business. When I was young, I was a YouTube kid. I like sat in front of YouTube and watched, I just like loved to learn, I guess. And I was super into makeup.

That was when like James Charles and like all these big makeup influencers were like really big. Yeah. Yeah. And so I taught myself how to do makeup, and I got like certified in Michigan at the time, you didn't have to be a cosmetologist, you could get like, do like a, basically like a disinfecting course and become a makeup artist.

And so during: 2019

Jen Thyrion: No way. That's amazing. So yeah,

Liv Murphy: while I was doing college online, which was cool. So, and then I sort of stopped doing that when I moved to Tennessee because a lot of my clients were in Michigan because it was COVID and I was doing school online and Tennessee has different requirements and I was like, you know, that was like really fun and I learned a lot, but I'm ready to like move on.

And then I went about two years without really doing anything and then permanent jewelry. But I had no experience with jewelry whatsoever. I didn't even really wear jewelry before I got into permanent jewelry. I hear that all

Jen Thyrion: the time. And it's so surprising because I'm sure you hear this too with people, like customers, or like, or you say you're at a pop up, a public thing where people are like, oh, I could never do that.

Like, I don't really wear jewelry. I'm like, well, it's actually perfect for you. You're going to find that you love it because you don't have to worry about it. You don't wear jewelry

Liv Murphy: because it's a pain to put it on yourself. Yes,

Jen Thyrion: exactly. Yes. Or if you don't wear jewelry, most likely you don't want something heavy.

And this isn't, but yet this kind of thing is like the hardest thing to put on yourself, right? So, yeah, I mean, was that once you got one, were you kind of like, I really like this and wanted to, you know, what kind of led you to starting a business?

Liv Murphy: Yeah, so I got it and then we went to play tennis that same day, which in retrospect seemed like a great idea, but mine flew off into the ether.

I don't know where it went. But it wasn't well done. It was just sort of like she crushed the jump ring shut. And I don't think the technique of closing it was that superb. And so I was like, what the heck? But I was like, for the three hours I did have it, I really liked it. And I was like, okay, let me look into this.

And so I joined that Facebook page and I kind of looked around and there was no one because my plan was to move back to Michigan after graduation. And there was not a single person in East Lansing where I'm from doing it. And so I basically like put together a PowerPoint because my parents, my family does a lot of like investing, which is so over my head.

I have no idea how any of that stuff works, but I like put together a proposal for my parents, like a slideshow. And we, and we got on zoom and I went through it and I had like a, you know, projected like startup costs and like margins and all that. And they were like, could tell that I wanted to do it, but they were at the same time.

We're kind of like, okay, like let's be for real, like 2, 500 for a welder. Are you going to be able to make that back? And so that, that's, that's why they got me the unbranded. I'm pretty sure. And then we all quickly realized like, oh, wow, this is like, this is a thing. And then what I started doing some events.

Um, in Michigan, because I lived there at the time, and then I moved back to Tennessee to do, to work at a law firm while I did my gap year from law school, and Tennessee is in a very interesting, Tennessee and Knoxville in general, because a lot of people are moving here from California and Michigan and Florida, like a lot of people are moving here.

And then the university in Knoxville has a lot of traffic too because the football team is really good this year and in the past few years and so people want to come watch and so that's like an extra 100, 000 people that are in town every weekend. So Knoxville is becoming very kind of touristy like for the Morgan Wallen concert he did two nights.

Um, at Neyland Stadium and we did a pop up. We made like 3, 500 in like two and a half hours at a pop up. It was madness. So it's kind of like a weird time because it didn't always used to be like that. But I really, the first thing I guess I did, this is super long winded, is I kind of looked at my market and was like, okay, is there already someone doing it?

And is it worth it for me to start? And that was two years ago, so. And people still are starting today. So I think that there's always room for more. So

Jen Thyrion: how did it start for you? Were you just purely mobile for a while? Or how was the start for you?

Liv Murphy: Yeah, so I remember my first ever event was actually in Knoxville because I wasn't quite graduated yet.

And it was at, like, a spa who was having their grand opening, so I was doing pop ups, and I did a lot of in home private parties when I started to, um, because it was, like, family or friends of family or, you know, whoever. And then I started doing more pop ups, and last year in October, I sort of made the decision, like, I'm done doing pop ups.

Like, this is just, this is, you know, you go to a pop up and you think it's gonna be awesome, and you sit there for four hours, and it's like, I hate my life. So I decided. I was gonna save up as much as I could and find a studio and sort of have that so I could still have people come to me and book. Um, I could host parties in here and then if there's a really good popup opportunity, I can either do it or not do it.

Jen Thyrion: Exactly. I love that. So how large is your studio then? Like how does it, like

Liv Murphy: 200 square feet, not very big. Right. Um, okay. So are you like in, how is it is like a suite is like a coworking or how, like what is it

Jen Thyrion: in

Liv Murphy: sort of, so our building, it's. It's like an old cottagey type house, actually, which is like right off a really busy street, which is kind of odd, but the girl who owns the building, she's about my age, and her and her mom together run a Merle Norman, which is a makeup store, and she also is an esthetician, and so she has the Merle Norman store, like, out front, and then she has like a room, like, Probably half the size of mine and she does lashes, brows, waxing, that kind of stuff.

Um, and then it's me and then we have an empty room right now that a nurse injector is going to come take. So it's kind of like

Jen Thyrion: foot traffic or like you said it's kind of on a busy road. So do you have signage like where like the location is, you know? Yeah, so,

Liv Murphy: um, Our signage sucks, and it's getting redone, but we, I will have better signage, like, I have signs in my windows, but it's kind of hard to see from the street, but I do have a lot of people, they have to walk past, my, my room has an exterior door, so I can just come right into my room from outside, and so people have to walk past my door to get store.

And so a lot of people like peek in and will come in and take cards and things like that. Um, but my signage definitely is weak. We're getting signage redone, but it's very expensive. I didn't realize how expensive like corporate signage is.

Jen Thyrion: Oh my gosh, completely. So do you feel like, I mean, just for anybody who's looking to get a studio space, like what would you like, what advice would you give them?

You know, I mean, it probably does. Does it help you that obviously other people around you because you do have that traffic coming in for something else and they see you type of thing or?

Liv Murphy: Yeah, it doesn't happen as much as I'd like it to, but it definitely has happened where people will come in here, like going in there, but it's kind of two different customer bases.

Like hers is more like older women, you know, who are coming to buy. A 20 mascara and not spend 85 on a permanent bracelet when they don't even really understand what permanent jewelry is. But we do have some crossover because her like lash clients and her facial clients, they're kind of more my target audience.

But I would just say to anyone who is looking to start a studio, not to underestimate how much it costs to actually put a studio together. In here we have like two side tables, like a buffet style table, a mirror, a couch, I had to get new curtains, I had to get new rug. Two desks, I just have the one machine now, but well, now I have two, but I just had the one when I started, but it costs kind of more, a lot more than I was, and I had to pay and things like that, but then just make sure you can afford it because I feel like there are a lot of people right now who, and I'm guilty of this too, I eventually want to open like a brick and mortar storefront type of place.

And I feel like there's a lot of people who feel pressured to do that because there are other people doing that, and they might necessarily not want to have a studio. They are having great success at pop ups and great success at home parties, but they feel like they should have a studio. Don't do something just because you feel like other people are doing it, so, oh, I have to do that, too.

Like, if it's working for you, then ride that wave. That's what I would say. I know, I

Jen Thyrion: remember actually talking to someone from, that went to PJX, and after she went, It's just speaking, like, listening to a particular, like, teacher. She was like, okay, I'm opening a brick and mortar. That's the answer. This is what I'm doing.

But then she's like, honestly, when I went home and I kind of let it sink in, I'm like, no, that's not really what I want. You know, I think like, but it's okay to like, like, try it on for size, you know, and be like, okay, cool. How does that feel? Because like you said, just because maybe that's what you're doing, it might not be right for me.

You know, so it also depends on your lifestyle, right? Like maybe people like that, like the thought of just going to pop ups and not having a place to worry about rent and all those things, right? So it's definitely things to consider, like putting yourself in that space of, you know, what that looks like for you, you know?

Liv Murphy: Yeah, and it definitely, like, I have to do, my rent here is not terribly expensive. I paid 500 for 200 square feet, which is not bad. It's not bad. But, I mean, that is, again, 500 extra a month that I have to, you know, to break even. So, it hasn't been a problem. January will be my first month in here, so we'll see come January.

But I kind of supplement that. I do, like, some sorority. I do a lot of, like, sorority stuff. Oh, fine. So that can kind of save me in those months where not as many people are coming here. So

Jen Thyrion: how, how is it working with marketing for you? Then how do you, how do people know, is it by appointment only? Are you open so many hours or how do people find you?

Liv Murphy: Yeah. So I have three girls who work for me and we each, they each kind of have like their day. And so they'll kind of plug it on their personal social media, like, Hey, come see me. I'll be here from this time to this time. And I kind of let them make their own schedule. Um, but they go off of like. You know, historically, what's been the busier days for us, which tends to be like Thursday through Sunday and then on Saturdays, we are typically we aren't this weekend because we are like busy all over the place.

We're usually open from like eleven to four for walk ins. People still usually book appointments, which I prefer. Like, I would prefer to know how busy my day is, but we still do take some walk ins. But. Like my Google profile, like my meta business suite that shows up on Google has the open hours that were typically open and they go to my website and they can book an appointment or request an appointment if there's not one available.

Uh, and then we talk about it a lot on our Instagram, which my target audience is very much Instagram girlies. And so I feel like they're going to go there before they go to Google or the website. I made a TikTok the other day because I keep seeing these ads for like charm necklaces that are 18 karat gold filled.

And so I made a TikTok and I was like, okay, this is just going to be a short educational TikTok about how to tell the difference and why this isn't a thing. It was like eight minutes long and I was like, okay, this is absurd. So I need to get better at like that kind of short form content. But yeah, that's what I did.

We have a lot, I'm doing a wedding tomorrow, and then we have a girl, some sorority girls coming in, like 10 of them or 8 of them, for a birthday party here Sunday morning, and then we're doing a pop up at a plant shop, and I'm gonna try to get some content then, some like B roll kind of content for, for TikTok, but yeah, that's, marketing is like, and social media is the hardest part about my business.

Because it's just so time consuming.

Jen Thyrion: It's so funny you say that. I feel like I've been, I've been hearing that more and more. And actually, like, I want to ask your experiences from, like, the people you've talked to, too. We'll get there. But it's like, that's kind of where I feel sticks out to me a lot, as people say the same thing you just said.

Social media is. Difficult for them or even just show like showing up on social is hard for some people like you know and then or just being consistent and like I said finding the time and like also being very like intentional with getting content like you said like getting b roll like making that a habit to set those things up so you're getting content because if you have no video or pictures what are you going to share?

Liv Murphy: Exactly. And I, I do have a photographer that is like my rock who produces such good content, but I think people get tired of seeing like, oh, that perfectly staged, beautiful photo. Like, they want to see something more real. And that's what I struggle with because a lot of times it's crazy. Like, I'm at events and it's busy and I simply don't have time to stand up and take pictures.

Videos when there's a line of people waiting, but it is definitely something that I need to sort of I need to be more intentional about and I've tried to have my girls kind of do that for me and they just don't think like I think like everyone thinks so differently and so it's kind of like a downer when I get the videos back and I'm like, oh, you know, so I need I just I think we're actually gonna have a workshop with the four of us and we're gonna sit down and kind That's a great idea.

Jen Thyrion: Speaking of, where did, well, first of all, when you said sorority a couple times, I posed a question, like, because for people that want to tap into that in their area, how did you kind of tap into the sorority, like, world? I

Liv Murphy: was in a sorority. So I have, and I was an officer twice in my sorority for two years.

So basically half the time I was in it, I was on the executive board. And so I know a lot about how sororities work internally and how to appeal to them and who to talk to in the sororities. Um, and I'm actually going to be talking about that to the Permanent Jewelry Association in the spring. So that'll be fun.

I think February maybe? February or March? I don't know. I'll have to ask Ashley. But it's just, you have to know who to talk to and people are always so, I always see people in the Not always, but I've seen a few times of people in like different groups post and like this email seems super scammy, like they want 200 bracelets and whatever.

And it's like, no, that's just like chapters nowadays are huge. My sorority has 420 girls in it now and their budgets are huge because each one of those 420 girls are paying, you know, 2, 500 a semester to be in the sorority. So they have money and they want to spend it because. The way sorority budgets work is you have a fall budget and a spring budget, and if you don't use all your fall money, you don't, it doesn't roll over, and you don't get to get it back.

That money goes to national, their national sorority. So they want to use up their money. So it definitely is, It's definitely, and I'm not saying don't require a deposit or anything, but I'm just saying don't be so, people are so quick to think it's a scam, but it's just, they have a lot of money. And I think that's what people don't really understand.

Jen Thyrion: Okay. Well, it's good to know you're going to go more in depth so if someone's interested, they can check out, you know, for you to chat about that in the future. But like the one last thing I'll ask about it then, if you are to reach out. What would you suggest? Like is there someone in particular they should be like l looking for or like something they should be saying or how does Yes,

Liv Murphy: so the best way is if, like, I always try to ask in a nonchalant way if my, any of my customers are in, or my clients are in a sorority.

Because an internal recommendation is always the best than trying to email. Because even when I was on exec, I would get so many emails from people wanting to work with our chapter that it was kind of overwhelming. And at times it was annoying and I was, I was the new member educator, so I was in charge of bid day and so basically like the big party where you find out you're in our sorority and you come home, whatever, and I would get a lot of those emails and sometimes I'd be like, okay, I'm like, push that to the side.

So an internal recommendation is always best. So if you know that your client is in a certain chapter. Ask her, like, hey, who should I reach out to and get that contact info or, hey, will you, like, put in a good word for me to this person? Um, the president, if you can find out who the president is, that's always a good place to start or usually, like, a sisterhood chair would also be a good person to reach out to.

Jen Thyrion: Good to know because You know, any other pop ups or a location, I always suggest like literally going in and talking face to face, but with a sorority, it's like, that's how do you, it's

Liv Murphy: hard because who, like, who are you? Yeah, no, I get that. You don't want to just show up at their house. Yeah. Hey, I'm here to, I'm here to inquire.

Yeah. But president or sisterhood chair is who I would say.

Jen Thyrion: That's awesome. Yeah. I love that. So what was your plan? Like with, was it always your plan to go to law school?

Liv Murphy: Yes, it was has been my plan since I was a little girl, I wanted to originally be a doctor and then I realized I would have to spend like the rest of my life in school and I'm not about that.

So I was like, Okay, like, what else can I do? And then in my AP history class in high school, we were learning about Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and I was like, God, I love this woman. And so I just became like obsessed with her. And I was like, you know, that's like a Thing that I could do and so I looked more into it and I was like, yes, so, and I originally wanted to do wrongful convictions.

And I still sort of am interested in that, but now as I'm kind of having success in this business and realizing I don't have to be chained to a desk Monday through Friday, nine to five, I'm like, Oh, maybe I should like, you know, do something else so that I don't have to be in an office, but I don't really know.

Sometimes I'm some days I'm like. I never want to go back to a nine to five and some days I'm like it would be nice to have a life outside of this business, but I don't know right now I'm learning a lot of skills that even if I don't end up practicing are super translatable to being a business owner, like contracts, drafting contracts, learning about negligence, learning about like the duty that you owe to people who walk through your door, things like that, that are super, super applicable to owning your own business.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, for sure. There's no doubt. Are you, like, a true crime buff?

Liv Murphy: Uh, yes. I am. And I'm, right now, and there's a lot of opinions about this, but right now I'm very interested in the whole Menendez case. Oh my god, I was

Jen Thyrion: just gonna ask you about it. That's why I'm like, when you said wrongful convictions, I'm like, yep.

Like, okay, yes, hours about these. Yes.

Liv Murphy: So I originally started when I was doing, and this is so funny when I was doing wedding makeup. At that point, I had already decided I wanted to go to law school. Bailey Sarian, who has a podcast called Dark History. And she also has a YouTube channel. It's called Murder Mystery Makeup Monday.

And she does her makeup and she's like a phenomenal, like, she's crazy. She can do amazing makeup and talk about like, this horrible true crime story and like it was just very it was very like two worlds intersecting for me and so um I started watching that but then there was a case just mercy is what the movie was called and it's basically about this guy who spent his entire life on death row for a crime he very much did not commit and there was like basically no evidence against him but this is what was a time when like I don't even think that African Americans could be on a jury and it was an African American defendant and basically this guy was fresh out of law school takes on this case and it's a it's a true story and the attorney who worked on it.

He started the Innocence Project in Alabama and so I got super interested in that and I was going to. I was applying to intern with them and then COVID happened, and so I couldn't, but that's sort of what I'm, what I am interested in. But yes, the Menendez brothers case has been like heavy on my noggin.

Jen Thyrion: I mean, it's everywhere.

I can't stop. I have been aware of that case for a very long time just through like being a true crime buff for a while, and there's been so many different coverages on that case. But the fact that it just can't, you know, yeah, it's pretty crazy. Well, they have a

Liv Murphy: hearing coming up next month, so I will be attending or finding a way to watch it online.

I don't, like, I am, like, very interested in this, if that would come up, this case, just procedurally after taking criminal law and both, like, as a person who thinks that they shouldn't have to spend the rest of their lives in jail. I don't know. I believe him. I think that they're telling the truth. And I think that they kind of got the short end of the stick when they, their trial was going on around the same time that OJ's trial was going on.

And he, OJ got off basically. And so LA was very much like, we're not, we're being tough on crime. We're not letting anyone get away with anything basically. So when they had their second trial, because their first trial resulted in a mistrial, when they had their second trial, the judge was like, pretty hard gunning for a conviction.

So I'll be interested to see what the, what their, uh, what the DA has to say about their, their new, their request to admit new evidence and a new re sentencing.

Jen Thyrion: I know. It's a hard one. It's a, I don't know. I go back and forth all the time. I do. It is

Liv Murphy: hard because you killed your parents. So, I mean, it is hard.

Like, there should be some, there should be some punishment. Yes.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, for sure. But it's funny. I remember in one of the things I watched recently, it was like, oh, but if these were two women, it would be different. And I'm like, you know, I don't know if I would feel different. I think that, you know, the ages that they were and all the things that the considering, like literally if it was the same thing that happened, but it was just girls, I honestly, I don't think that for me, that would change anything for how I feel about it.

I don't know.

Liv Murphy: Yeah, I think that at that time, definitely, I think it would have been different, but because, I mean, Gypsy Rose is out.

Jen Thyrion: Right. That's right, Gypsy Rose. She didn't actually

Liv Murphy: kill her mom, but she got someone else to kill her mom.

Jen Thyrion: True. And I know it's hard. It's so hard.

Liv Murphy: Yeah, I mean, we grapple with these same things in my criminal law class and it's like what you what you want to happen.

You open that can of worms and then any situation that comes after is different and it's just hard to apply. So, I mean,

Jen Thyrion: You don't really know the, that's what's so hard. It's like, you don't really know the truth. That's the hardest thing. I mean, Gypsy Rose, it was so obvious, like, the abuse she was going through as a child just by looking at her.

Obviously, like, we, you know, we hear the story and it was very, but for, I hate to say this, but the Menendez brothers, it's like, we're, we're kind of like, there's no hardcore evidence, really, other than a couple hearsays, you know what I'm saying, a little bit? Like, there's not, Yeah,

Liv Murphy: it's not, it's not as obvious and yeah, but they're, they're, they are moving to admit a new piece of evidence, which was a letter that I did see another letter Eric wrote before the murders happened.

Why does this stuff take so long? Yeah, well, and once you like. So they had a mistrial the first time, and then, these trials take a long time to prep for, like, and that's what I think people don't, like, discovery for cases can go on for years, so that's basically sides trading what information they have. I don't

Jen Thyrion: know, I mean, moral of the story, just don't murder your parents.

I think that's what, don't murder anybody, you know what I mean? Yes.

Liv Murphy: I don't think you should kill anybody. I don't think any, I don't think you should kill anybody. That's, that's true. So I think we need to make it easier for people who are abused to come forward so that things like this don't happen, you know?

I know,

Jen Thyrion: I do think it's turning points and things, what I have to say, you know what I mean, when it comes to, I think these are all things that happen for a reason, and obviously it shows how much we've evolved too, which is great. Because that literally was what, like I said, 35, 36 years ago at this point.

So a lot, a lot has changed, you know, and like the abuse excuse, like they said, I mean, it was like, so like, yeah, right. Two men get, two boys, basically men getting abused. Yeah, right. You know, but obviously at this point, we understand that that does happen. And so. We are in a different time for sure, and I think that shows of evolution, which is good, right?

And the way it does. Hey, busy entrepreneur. As you know, being a business owner, you have to wear all the hats. You're a social media manager, marketer, graphic designer, accountant, photographer, videographer, web designer, business coach, scheduler, and the list goes on. I know how overwhelming it can be, and this is why I created the Goldilinks Society.

It's our monthly permanent jewelry membership. We have a weekly call to talk about all the things, but not only that, including monthly photography and video to use for your social media and marketing, Canva templates, monthly business expert, monthly training, support group, discount, and first dibs on Goldilocks supplies and more.

My intention is to create a platform. beautiful community of permanent jewelers that want to level up their businesses together by creating lasting friendships and having fun. This is what I wish existed when I started my business almost 10 years ago. If you want to know more, check it out at GoldieLinksSociety.

com or at AllTheThingsPermanentJewelry. com. I hope to see you there. Oh my gosh. So that's cool. So, okay. So how is your life right now? Going to law school and like managing a business? Like tell me more. Like what is that like? It is very hectic,

Liv Murphy: as evidenced by how long it took for us to get this set up.

It's so chaotic, but I am, I kind of grew up in a very chaotic environment. Like, we were always busy. I played competitive sports on a national team, and so every weekend I was in a different state, and I was in school and, you know, so I kind of grew up being very busy all the time. And so when I became an adult and kind of was living on my own and working, I was like, I've got way too much free time.

Like, I don't know how to just sit down and relax. So I like having a lot on my plate. And for me, that's what keeps me sort of like accountable. Like, okay, like I have to, I have to be here at this time. Like, this is my schedule and it makes, it forces me to plan and I'm a planner. So. It's good. It's, it's chaotic, but it's also really rewarding and I don't have kids and I think that's what makes a big difference is if I had kids, it would be much harder and I think it would be like less realistic for me to be in law school and working and having a podcast and I have a dog and that's it, but I, I shout out to all the moms like you're a super mom.

I could not, I couldn't do it if I, it's, it takes definitely a special person, but I think, you know, Because I don't have kids right now. It's easier than it would be. Totally. For others, yeah. How long

Jen Thyrion: have you had employees for at this point?

Liv Murphy: Not very long. Um, I had, one of them I, I knew she was in my sorority.

She's younger than me. I was actually her new member educator. She helped me. Um, at a few big sorority events where I basically just needed help with her checking people's name off a list. And then I was like, you know, like, do you want a job? She was like, sure. And so she's been with me since last May and then I recently brought two other girls on who are also in college.

In like August, August or early September, so they've been with me kind of sharing the load because they're all in college, so they're not expecting 40 hours, so it's easy for them. They just kind of sign up for what days they want and and go from there. So

Jen Thyrion: that's awesome. So the experience at least has been great with like hiring, you know, feel like you found good people.

Liv Murphy: Yes, and it's definitely hard for me to find people that I trust, and people that I think will represent me well when I'm not in the room, because it is my brand, and for so long, for nearly two years, people have associated, like, I've been the only person, I have been the brand, um, so it definitely is kind of hard letting go in that aspect of the control, but it's also been really important.

Jen Thyrion: Like, people especially repeat, like, I've had this experience where I did have an event where I was working my term bar and I hired someone to do permanent jewelry, but I felt like people were coming to see me, and when they saw that someone else was there, they were a little disappointed. Did you, do you ever feel that way in the beginning of, you know, or?

Yes.

Liv Murphy: And it's definitely something that we are working through because people really only want to book with me. So when they book online, they can choose a provider pretty much. And a lot of people want to be with me because they're repeats or because I don't know, whatever. And so I am kind of working through that, and I'm trying to push new people to some of my employees.

And I've done that by kind of cutting back my hours that I advertise, so that they're kind of, you know, if they can only come on this day, they're kind of forced to go with one of them. And that's not because I don't want to, I mean, obviously I'd rather do it, but. It's not fair to them, almost. Like, I feel kind of bad because people are like, oh, I only want a book with Liv.

It's like, oh, that's kind of, you know, that's not great. But, and the whole point of getting employees is so that you can have some downtime. So, it definitely is a balance. But at pop ups, I don't really think people care that much. But yeah, I was doing the Charm Bar and Grace was doing permanent jewelry at our last event, the Morgan Wallen event.

And, um, It didn't seem to be a big problem. There were a couple repeats that came and they did sort of talk to me, but Grace can talk to a brick wall. So she was making best friends with everyone. So it works.

Jen Thyrion: That's awesome. You do have a charm bar. That's awesome. So is that in your studio as well?

Liv Murphy: So it's, it's pretty new.

I just, I would say like I got this stuff. We launched it on September 21st. So just a little bit over a month So it's it's pretty new and I kept I wasn't gonna do it. I was confiding against it and I was like No, we're permanent jewelry. That's what we do It's all we're doing but I kept having requests and I was like, okay Well, I just need to give the people what they want and it's been a huge hit because then now i've drawn in a whole New crowd of people who don't really want permanent jewelry, but they want The charm bar.

So

Jen Thyrion: exactly. That's awesome. But it has been working out for you because I I've enjoyed adding it to I also fought it and now I'm like, I really enjoy it and I feel like I

Liv Murphy: would have done it sooner.

Jen Thyrion: I know in Tennessee. I don't know why I just I just picture people loving that look like I don't know.

There's just something about that. You know?

Liv Murphy: Yeah, I think in Nashville to it's huge right now. I'm about three hours from Nashville, but I do some events in Nashville. Uh, and the Nashville crowd definitely does love it.

Jen Thyrion: I get so many girls like, you know, how you have people that get things run of town and so many that girls went on girl trips in Nashville and they got permanent jewelry that they want tightened or put back on or, you know, so yeah, it's very, I hear that a lot actually.

So yeah, how is it that, so what made you want to start a podcast? Let's talk about that.

Liv Murphy: Oh, well, I, I'm a podcast girlie. I'm a, I'm like, they're like, the kids now are like iPad kids. I was like YouTube and podcasts. Like I had to be listening to it. And I listened to your podcast actually, when I first started and I was like, God, she has such a good voice.

Like you have such a good voice. I get the same thing about

Jen Thyrion: you. No, I'm like, when I listened to you, I'm like, God, there's something like, which is funny. So people tell me this too, which I think is hilarious I feel like I'm loud. I know I laugh loud. I can't help it. I've accepted it. But your voice is so calming.

But people tell me that, for me, I do not have a calming voice. Like, that is a very, you're very, like, I don't know how to describe it. Like, other than that. I'm like, oh wow, it's easy to, like, listen to you, for sure. I go

Liv Murphy: back and when I listen to my episodes before I post them, and I was texting about this with someone, I'm like, Oh my god, I want to barf.

I don't want to listen to myself three times over. Like, this is horrible. And then you start like nitpicking yourself. Like, I really had to tone down when I first started because I am so like, I want to be engaged with the person I'm talking to. And I'll be like, Yeah, yeah. And it's like, stop saying yeah.

It's like, shut up. And I've had to like, really, kind of, drill in with myself about that, so I'm sitting here consciously being like, don't say yeah, don't say yeah. You

Jen Thyrion: know, trust me, because even when we pull clips just to have like a social media clip and hear like, I want to hear the other person talk and I'm like, uh huh, uh huh, you know what I mean?

And I'm like, oh my god, just. Jen, let her talk. I can

Liv Murphy: never talk again. I'm muting my microphone the entire time. Yeah, no, but I just love listening to podcasts and I thought it would be like, I never thought anyone would listen. Honestly, I was like, oh, this will just be like a little fun, like, I know it's archived for me.

Yes. And then people actually started listening to it and following me and I was like, this is weird. Um, but it's just been good. And I always, I always was like, I want to be a YouTube girly, but I don't, I don't know, maybe, maybe, I don't know. But this is just like fun for me to get to talk to people and chat and yap all day.

So. For sure. I

Jen Thyrion: know it is just fun. So what do you feel like you, cause what I like about it too is that I'm learning from other people all the time. I love that. Oh, absolutely. I'm always wanting to be learning. I'm just such a, like, I'm such a. curious person, I guess. So what do you feel like? What is your experience been so far?

Like having guests? Like, what do you feel like? What sticks out to you? Number one, what the people that you feel are sick, like their success, like what is the number one thing why people are successful?

Liv Murphy: I think that success is defined so differently for so many people, and seeing how one person is like living out their best life as what they view as successful, and then talking to someone else who has a complete like 180 of like how they feel successful, it is so, and my personal idea of success is so different than, you know, everyone that I've talked to.

And I think people do get wrapped up in like the vanity of success of like, Oh, well, this person has 10, 000 fire. Oh, this person has, you know, 58 storefronts and 10, 000 employees. And, you know, I think that people can get caught up in that. And I actually have had some people like message me and be like, you know, I wasn't going to listen to this episode because I hadn't heard of this person.

And I just didn't think it'd be worth my time. But I learned so much. And I talked about this, I was on, I did a live with Sunstone the other day in their Facebook group and I talked about like how if you think that you have nothing to learn, you always have something that you can learn and be growing and getting better at.

So I think for me, like you said, it's like you're learning so much by talking to someone

Jen Thyrion: else. Going back to that, like this person has this or like the whole comparison thing, I just like throw it out the window because also too, I think when If someone sees someone else is such a success and whatever that again, like whatever that is for them, but thinking that they know it all, we're constantly learning.

We're constantly evolving. Like it's just a different there. It might be at a different stage, but they're still learning and they're still going through. And every it's like when they say like new level, new devil, I hate, you know, that term, but it's like, it's, you know what I mean? It's kind of like when you level up, you're going to constantly be like.

like thrown in your face of something else. Like it doesn't stop. You know what I mean? It's kind of like that adult, like the adulting is like after this things will slow down after this. And it's like, no, there's always something. There's always something to learn that you're going to be challenged with because as you level up in your own way, whatever that means for you, it's like, you're always going to be dealt with some challenge, you know?

Liv Murphy: That is so true, that is so true, because now I have problems I never had when I was pop up, like, when I was pop up based, like, now I have to pay for, like, business, like, dwelling insurance, and for, like, the building, and, you know, it's just utilities, and it's like, I thought this was going to be great. And then like when her, the hurricane happened, um, in Florida, we got like some aftermath of it and there was a leak in the roof and we have to take care of that.

I'm like, you know, didn't happen when I did pop up. So there, I definitely agree. Like as you grow, there's always going to be something new. that you're going to have to be able to conquer.

Jen Thyrion: Actually speaking of that, because I feel like it's really helpful when people like, because I know a lot of premature as I talked to you do have this like goal one day of having a studio or their brick and mortar.

What are like some like, I don't say secret because it's not a secret, but it's like, what are like some costs that we don't think about? Like you know what I mean? When you go into having a brick and mortar, you think of rent and maybe an employee. Like you don't really go further a little bit then, okay, maybe getting like bags in your POS system or something, but it's like, yes, there are things that we don't think about.

Liv Murphy: Yeah, so I definitely, I'm looking into a storefront and it is so expensive. Like storefronts here, I'm talking like less than 2, 000 square feet are like 45 to 6 grand a month. So that's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. And so you have to be making a profit obviously on top of that. So my goal is to be making three times at least, three and a half times at least the monthly rent to just, you know, feel good.

But some things you wouldn't think about, like you said, bags. Bags for them to take pre made jewelry out in? Hello? I did not expect that. I just actually ordered today, like, 300 branded bags. And that was, like, 250. I'm gearing up for Black Friday. So, buying those kinds of supplies. Frames. For your, like, pricing and, like, artwork in your place.

Cause you don't want it to feel like a prison. Like, you want it to look cute. Like, paint, fixing the place you move into. Cause it's rarely, like, perfect, ready for people to come in. Um, furniture, for sure. Extra supplies. So, like, I have Ugh, this is, like, embarrassing. I'm looking in here and it's so messy.

Just, like, extra, you know, wipes to wipe down the table. Cleaning supplies. Um, extra pliers in case mine break. Different displays. Displays are so expensive for no reason. But yeah, but they really elevate a space for sure. And then, like, property insurance for sure is something that I didn't even think about.

I thought if my business had insurance, then surely the place I was in would have insurance. And that's not true. And then, like, Utilities, obviously, a lot of places will have like a triple net lease, which means you pay your monthly rent, but then you also pay an extra fee per square foot to like contribute to building improvements and utilities and things like that.

And then something else that I have, I have a fridge in here, not everyone, like it's definitely not necessary, but I keep like little drinks and little snacks in there for my people when they come in. And that was extra, but, yeah, I don't know. So when you mentioned you own

Jen Thyrion: your bag, so are you, I should ask this, so you're obviously doing permanent jewelry, but are you, now you're doing Charm Bar, but are you, do you offer any other types of jewelry or any other type of retail?

Liv Murphy: Yes, so I just actually placed again today a big earring order. I do some earrings, and I also do like the stretchy bracelets. And then I will have some people who come in and get permanent jewelry, but with a clasp on it, like to gift to someone else, because they don't want it to tarnish and they like that they can, you know, customize it, whatever.

Um, so I do things like that. And then I also do engraving. I have an engraver and I do engraving and things like that, so. I've had some stuff like that, but I just placed a bag, like a bag order because I realized they're like little boxes that have a drawer that come out and have the jewelry in it, but they also are a bag at the same time.

So, like, you just turn the box to the side and these little handles come out. But because I was at a pop up a couple weeks ago and someone was like, can I have a bag? And I was like, sorry, no. Like, I'm out of bags. Well, I

Jen Thyrion: know. Actually, I never think of that either. And some people will get clasps and they'll be asked for a bag because it's for someone else or again, charm bar, which usually people just wear it and they're like, no, it's actually for someone else.

I'm like, I'm trying to like. Go through my purse and try to find something like, yeah,

Liv Murphy: right, some random bag that I got from somewhere else.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, good. No. So, engraving. Talk about that for a minute because I know people are interested in that most likely. So, are you, do you have an X tool? I do, I do.

Liv Murphy: And I've had it for over a year and I, I get the, the, the drama about like, well, is it really going to like engrave in my, I do have some stainless steel charms that I engrave and those engrave amazing. Like it's deep. You can feel it. It's amazing. The gold filled, it does engrave. It's not as deep. I can definitely feel it, but my best friend has had an engraved permanent necklace on.

What I love about X tools, it has software where you can draw. And it'll engrave it on, like, just in, like, your handwriting. And so she has a heart that her boyfriend drew, and she's had it since February, February of last year, and it

Jen Thyrion: still looks great. Oh, good. So with the X Tool, okay, Mike, here, because I have an engraver, too, although I have not used it, okay, it is not an X Tool, though.

Because one of the things that we're Gravotech, is, like, the name of the, It's an actual, like, when I say legit engraver, I don't mean it to say X Tool isn't, but I think like X Tool, when it engraves, is it black or is it just engraved in the metal? Does that make sense? Is it a black? It

Liv Murphy: depends on, yeah, yeah.

It depends on the metal type, because it has two lasers. It has an infrared laser and a diode laser. So it depends. Like the gold filled, it, I don't know how to describe it, because it is black, but you can definitely like feel that it's gone past the first layer of gold fill, um, but on stainless steel, it actually is.

etches it.

Jen Thyrion: So it actually, yeah, I was wondering if it marks it and like laser like just puts up like a image on it or it actually etches it. That's what I was always confused about that because yeah and it definitely blacken yours off and it's not good for permanent. Like if it's putting an image like a laser image almost rather than engraving.

Does that make sense?

Liv Murphy: Yeah and it definitely depends on the type of material because it can like print almost. Is an image on but most of I don't really do that. Most of what I do is like text or, you know, some like I'm not putting a picture of someone's face on it and it definitely depends. Some metals engrave like deeper than others for sure.

So like I made my dog's dog tag on the X tool and it's like actually engraved like feel it. But yeah, it definitely depends. It definitely depends. I'm not saying that it's perfect and then it'll last forever, but It's not like and I think probably what you have is like a fiber laser that like actually like the metal I could cut it does

Jen Thyrion: cut

Liv Murphy: the metal.

Jen Thyrion: That's what I wanted because also to with x tool, forgive me if I do you need exhaust. Do you need to have exhaust with it? Like, you don't have to,

Liv Murphy: but it's super recommended that you do.

Jen Thyrion: Okay, so mine, supposedly. You don't need, you know, because I guess it's just like purely etched in the metal. Okay.

That's just interesting because I'm always like wondering, because I know a girl locally here who does permanent jewelry and she has both, like she has an X tool and then something else that is like, so they kind of do different things a little bit. So I'm always interested.

Liv Murphy: And I would love to upgrade.

And Xtool just came out with a new engraver that's supposedly more powerful or something. I don't know. Yeah, they keep

Jen Thyrion: getting better and better, I have to say. Like, that seems like a great company, actually.

Liv Murphy: Yes. Um, and they're working on something with Sunstone, too. To try to come up with like a I don't know Jonathan was talking about it on the episode that I had with him But he didn't give me too much details I I like it and it does a lot like I I don't know if I have any like already printed but I have these like little felt jewelry bags that I had before I got the boxes And I actually used the laser but on like different settings to put my logo on it.

So that was, that was nice. But yeah, I definitely want to upgrade to like a fiber laser for sure.

Jen Thyrion: But it's good to know because X Tool I feel like has different levels that you can, you know, try something relatively inexpensive comparably to like, you know, because mine wasn't cheap. A 10, 000 laser. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So it's like you can try it first and see if that's something that's your jam, you know, that you want to go further with and if or not, you know, you can kind of start small and then always upgrade, which is cool.

Liv Murphy: Yeah, I definitely don't think you should buy like a 10, 000 fiber laser if you have like currently no demand for, you know, engraving.

Like don't buy it in hopes that it'll be awesome. Like have a little bit of strategy behind it for sure.

Jen Thyrion: For sure. Okay, awesome. It's been so good. I feel like time has flown, but like, where do you see your, like, business and everything, podcast, I don't know, all of it going in the next year? What's your five year plan?

Just kidding.

Liv Murphy: To still be sane. I think in the next five years, I'll have a storefront. I hope to be on downtown, like, downtown Knoxville. And I don't know, I'll, I'll be graduated from law school, so it could be very different. I could be like doing this full time or I could be kind of, you know, doing this half the time with my employees and doing the legal thing.

I don't know. I definitely still think my business will still be around. I don't know. That's, that's a, it's a question that I have not really thought. I mean, I think about it all the time, right? But I haven't thought like, you know, this is for sure what it's going to be like. But I think storefront is definitely like brick and mortar, retail, not in a like suite, you know?

And then, yeah, I don't know. I'm still going to be, I'm still going to be around. People are still going to have to be hearing from me. So I'm not going anywhere.

Jen Thyrion: I love it. It's going to be exciting to see how it evolves. And who knows, you could be like the permanent jewelry lawyer. You know what I mean?

Like,

Liv Murphy: and I've thought about that, too, because we don't really have one. So,

Jen Thyrion: well, I mean, this could be a whole other episode. And I don't know if you know, I interviewed I don't know if you've interviewed a lawyer yet, but I was a legal doer was on for we talked about contracts and or sorry, waivers and things like that.

But because there's a lot of questions out there when it comes to legal things with permanent jewelry and more and more, I don't know if it's as permanent jewelry is, you know, widens with its popularity, like there'll be more things that we need to be aware of when it comes to legal, you know, but it's nice to have someone have their, like you, who's knowledgeable and have their finger on it to kind of give us updates on like what we need to know legal wise, right?

When it comes to wealthing, children, all the things that get brought up a lot. Yes. Um, if you can put that into really like being that you have a little bit of a law, you know, what is your view on that?

Liv Murphy: Oh, okay. Well, I want to preface this by saying I'm not an attorney and this is not legal advice, but are you talking about like welding on children?

Yes. You see, I don't know because I haven't read the trial or the Consumer Protection Safety Initiative Act. I have not read it. I'll, I've not read it in depth. I've read the parts that are applicable to jewelry and my understanding is that if you're not. Advertising it to children, then it's not that doesn't apply to you that if you're not advertising, like if you're if chill, if you are not soliciting Children to have your product, then I think it's less applicable versus, like, uh, Toy companies who are soliciting children, advertising to children.

So I think it'll be interesting to see how, how it goes. And I'm actually going to meet with a professor of mine to talk about that. Because I want to know sooner rather

Jen Thyrion: than later. No, I do too. It's almost for my own good too. Like, that's why I'm like, I love to, I did touch on it in that episode. And she had their own opinion.

And, and I don't say opinion, I mean, she obviously has a professional opinion about it, you know, not just definitely looked into a little bit for me, but someone else who can look in a little bit more like be focused and look into that in depth and have kind of like, uh, I don't say final answer, but it's really, I think that some people let it go to a place it doesn't need to go when it comes to that, you know,

Liv Murphy: and I think everyone gets on Google and looks up and then they're in Google.

Totally, it's like when you have a headache and you think you have a brain tumor, you

Jen Thyrion: know, it's like one of those things, right? Like, we, it's

Liv Murphy: just like, you're not an attorney, sit down, you're, just because Google says something doesn't mean, like, and that's the thing with AI, too, like, this is, like, unrelated to Permanent Joy, but there are lawyers who are getting in trouble for using AI because AI is telling them things that are not true about the law.

Jen Thyrion: Wow. Um, like there,

Liv Murphy: there's a big, big case where, you know, these attorneys wrote a brief, which is basically a research paper to the court, uh, to a judge and they used AI and it was citing cases that don't exist. And the judge was like, I can't find these cases, bring them with you to me. And they had to admit that they used AI and that the cases and the principles in the, in the brief were, were not real.

So, AI, you know, using AI for legal, that's a whole nother thing. I don't think that It's good to know

Jen Thyrion: because some people might be going there and asking those specific questions and getting, and that's why it is hard, there's so much information out there, but it's like understanding it or knowing what's quote unquote true or what's someone's just opinion or, you

Liv Murphy: know what I mean?

Like And definitely don't use AI as your primary tool. primarily legal source, definitely get an attorney. It's an interesting topic and it's a hot topic and it was one that in the group the other day there was a lot of conversation about that.

Jen Thyrion: It gets brought up every now and then and people get really like, like, really

Liv Murphy: rowdy about

Jen Thyrion: it.

Liv Murphy: Really

Jen Thyrion: rowdy. Yeah, because I can understand. I mean, children, you don't want to mess with any of that or mess with like anything that's illegal. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. So it's definitely something to talk about. But okay. What would you like to share? Anything else that you would like to share about yourself or any, or you want anyone to know?

Liv Murphy: I would just say that don't be the person that limits yourself. Don't, if someone tells you, oh, that's not a good idea, or oh, you, you know, is that too much? You can't do that. Don't be the, don't, just simply agree with them. Push yourself to do the things you want to do. Because no one else is going to push you to make your dreams come true.

You're going to have to do that for yourself. And you are your, either you're your biggest enemy or your biggest supporter. So choose the latter and believe in yourself and that you can do hard things. Even when you're busy and have a crazy life.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. It is possible. Yes.

Liv Murphy: It is possible. It is very, and it's very much worth it.

So.

Jen Thyrion: I love it. Well, it's been so cool to chat with you. Finally. Where can we find you? Give us all the goods of your, Yes. So

Liv Murphy: on Instagram, my Instagram is the pink welder pod and I'm also on Spotify and Apple music pink welder podcast. And my personal Instagram is livemurph with three H's, so I haven't posted in like eight months, but feel free to go follow me there.

Um, but yeah, and I'm pretty active in a lot of the Permanent Joy groups on Facebook and whatnot. And I'll be at PJX! Oh yay! That's awesome! Not speaking, I'm just going.

Jen Thyrion: I'm looking forward to like seeing you in person then. Um, were you at the last, were you at PJX? I was

Liv Murphy: in

Jen Thyrion: your class,

Liv Murphy: Jen! I was, but I had to leave halfway through because I had the worst migraine of all time.

Oh no! I hadn't drank like a single drop of water since I had been there and I was like, I am gonna throw up right now. So, I made it to the end, to the end, when they were making stretchy bracelets and I'm like, I gotta bounce.

Jen Thyrion: I know, funny you say that. I was note to self for last time too. I felt like I didn't drink any water and that first, the first day of PJX was fine.

That first class I did. That second full day, and I had to teach, I was, I was struggling. And I was

Liv Murphy: the second day and I was like, passing the first class was great. The second day I was struggling, so. Yeah, I think everyone was. Okay,

Jen Thyrion: well, it was great chatting with you.

Liv Murphy: Yes, of course. We'll see, or

Jen Thyrion: we'll see you in, I'll see you in Michigan at one point.

Wouldn't that be crazy? I'll see you in Texas and I'll see you in Michigan. Oh my

Liv Murphy: gosh, yes. If we could do an in person, I would love that. That would be, that would be crazy.

Jen Thyrion: And we could like just reach out to local permanent jewelers in the area too and just have like a meetup. That'd be really fun.

Liv Murphy: Yes, that would be fun.

They're like, who are these crazy women trying to meet up with me? All right, well, thank you so much for having me. Yes, it's been super fun. All right. Thank you. Yes. I'll talk to you

Jen Thyrion: soon. Okay. Bye. Well, how do you feel? I hope you found value in today's episode and you walk away feeling inspired. I would love to hear from you.

Let's link up. You can find me on Instagram at GoldieLinkSociety. You can find out more about our permanent jewelry membership at GoldieLinkSociety. com. Our handmade permanent jewelry supplies of connectors, chain, and more at GoldieLinkSupplies. com. Okay. I will see you next time. Have a golden day.