021: Ashley Donnell Of The Babe Standard: Permanent Jewelry, Trends, & Turning Passion Into Success

Jen Thyrion: Hey there. I'm Jen Thyrion and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a former nine to fiver that dove into entrepreneurship eight years ago with zero business experience. I'm a wife mama of two young girls, boutique owner, jewelry designer, and now the proud owner and coach leading Goldie Links permanent jewelry.

I have a passion to empower fellow business space. This podcast is made to equip you with everything you need to succeed from actionable marketing steps to digging deep on your mindset. I know firsthand the heart, hard work, and let's be real, Time's a struggle that makes up this amazing journey. You want to know what has enabled me to shine the brightest coaching plus community here at Goldie Links.

We share openly educate and lift each other up, expect to get links with fellow PJ owners that will do just that sprinkle plenty of fun along the way. Competition, isn't old school thought and connection is the way get ready to feel inspired. Welcome to the Golden Coins podcast. Hey there,

Did you know that we offer handmade permanent jewelry supplies? Go to GoldieLinkSupplies. com to view our beautiful chains, connectors, bangles, and more, including our non permanent stretchy bracelets that are available to you for wholesale. Everything is created by our tribe of mama makers. What is a mama maker?

Stay at home moms that create on their own time between raising their children, serving as a self care creative outlet and supporting their families. Your items come with signage on how these supplies are made along with gemstone property info, as each gemstone has a special meaning. If you want to level up your business with handmade supplies, not made by a machine, but made by hand with love, then check it out at goldilynxsupplies.

com. Now onto the show. I had the pleasure of sitting down with Ashley Donnell today. You might know her already. She is one of the admins of the original permanent jewelry group on Facebook. And as she says, it's the best place to be on the internet. She also was a teacher at PJX. So we talk about all the things, brick and mortar, employees, her growth, what she feels has led to her success.

We talk about metal quality, big time. pretty much touch on all the things. So enjoy this combo. If you don't know her, you should know her. Here you go. Hey, Ashley. I'm so glad you're here today. I'm so excited. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here with you. So some of you might, might know Ashley, of course, from PJX, from all the things, obviously the original permanent jewelry group on Facebook, but tell us about yourself.

Like you were to meet me for the first time and I know nothing about you. So who are you? All the things.

Ashley Donnell: So I'm Ashley Donnell. I live in Kansas City. I am the owner and founder of the Bape Standard. We started as an affordable, trendy jewelry shop. I was selling 18 fashion earrings and quickly kind of learned that affordability did not equal profitability.

So I started adding some higher quality and higher ticket items and that led me to permanent jewelry when I was Looking to really sign my first brick and mortar lease. It was a 2, 400 square foot space and I needed something that would take up space but also make a lot of money because it was a 4, 000 a month rent.

And how do I make that much money in a month? Um, let's find something a higher price and high margin. And my friend had just gotten a permanent bracelet, one of the girls who worked for me. And she's like, well, what if we had them come in and like, you know, rent them space in the shop? And I started looking into it and I was like, wait a second, we can do this.

Like, we can do this. And so two days later, a welder was at my house. Um, I bought a welder the same day that I saw an online video. I was like, I think I'm going to teach myself to weld jewelry. And here we are. Now we're going on our third summer offering it. So we're going on three full

Jen Thyrion: years. So how long did you have your business prior to that?

, so I founded it in November: 2018

Jen Thyrion: Do you have multiple brick and mortars at this point?

Ashley Donnell: Yes. So I left that location. Okay. I could not afford the rent. Um, even with permanent jewelry, four thousand a month is a lot of money.

And then I moved to an unconventional retail space and I still have that shop. Um, this is our second season there and it's in an old shipping container. And I learned quickly that we survive in places where people are more hanging out than where they're shopping. So I have found Like more of a lifestyle center to be our bread and butter, um, where people are hanging out and not just there.

Um, the first location was in a high end mall. I was next to Athleta across from Kendra Scott. Uh, there were no like restaurants or bars or entertainment options. It literally was like, we saw more people pull up, take their bag into Athleta and leave with nothing, just doing returns than anywhere, anything else.

Um, I found. Going into more untraditional retail spaces, um, my two full brick and mortars are actually both in outdoor shopping malls, but they're malls that are a little bit more of a hangout kind of vibe, more of a walking center Um, with restaurants and things like that. That's one location. And another, yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Is that something you would suggest to people looking for brick and mortar? Because now you say that when you really think of like what we do, like you said, athletic up. People are like maybe buying online and just going to return or you know what I mean? Whereas this, it's like, yeah. Very community centered doing permanent jewelry, right?

So most likely if someone's walking around with their people going to dinner or whatever They're like, oh my gosh, like they're with their friends already and they want to go get permanent jewelry, right?

Ashley Donnell: So my top performing store is still our shipping container store and it's like in a food and bar district So there are three bars seven food options and people go there they just like hang out for the evening and they have two or three quails and they're like I want a bracelet.

And then our second location, there's like three or four, like really good, like patio restaurants that people will go hang on the patio and just kind of wander around, bother wait for the table or anything like that. Our third location is probably the most traditional retail at it's the one where I've struggled the most with consumer education as to our concept.

Because yes, Transcribed We're across the street from Victoria's Secret and Lululemon. And I was able to get a really great price because the mall is kind of in a revitalization and they wanted some local business to come in. So I was able to get a really good lease, significantly better than I could in a standalone retail space.

But I struggled quite a bit with getting people to understand that we're not traditional retail. And, like, we do suggest that you make an appointment, and if you don't make an appointment, we may not be able to help you. And we do a lot of private parties, bachelorette parties, that kind of thing. Um, and I've run into some issues where we close for a private party because our space is small.

Once there are ten girls in here who know each other, trust me, you don't want to be here. Like, I don't even want to be in here. Yeah, getting customers to understand that has been a challenge. We had a customer who a Saturday she came and she was standing at the door waiting to come in before we opened before my employee even got here.

Cause we only arrived 10 or 15 minutes early. So she was standing at the door. Waiting 15 minutes before we opened and my employee came in, got the store ready to open and then checked and saw that she had appointments right at 10 a. m. So she went out and told the customer, Hey, I just want to let you know we do have appointments.

to: 1130

Signage and things like that

Jen Thyrion: help with that. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately things like that have to happen sometimes to be able to, you know, like as you get busier too. So were you accepting walk ins before, but now you're just more booked with appointments that you can't really take walk ins as often.

Ashley Donnell: Yeah.

And I mean, it just depends on the weekend. Like last Saturday, I had a ton of open availability and we had a great day with walk ins. Um, like I had a party first thing at 10 a. m. and then. pretty much nothing after that. We still did 2, 000 on Saturday, but then the week prior, we had seven appointments and our walk in availability was very slim.

Is there any way for people to see availability on your website or anything? Yeah, we post, we post it on social every morning. It's not the people who are researching us that we're running into the problem with. It's the people who walked by during the day. The week or had seen it from a friend or anything like that.

And because we're in the mall setting, they don't understand more of a service than a shop.

Jen Thyrion: That makes total sense. And like you said, you probably have to, you have to, you know, just cater to that individual customer. And one's going to be more unique than the other, but as you get busier and more successful, you do, you are posed like more money, more problems kind of thing.

You know, it's like that's going to pose different problems in different areas. But like, um, so you were just working on front end. Like for signage is what you're saying, like different when they walk up, they could kind of be like, okay, a very beautiful sign that kind of, you know, describes your process, right?

Like how it works.

Ashley Donnell: Yeah. Our store hours, I was going to say appointments suggested walk ins accepted availability allows, um, we made a sign that the team members are going to update every day with the current availability for that day and the next day. And then just Go from there and see if those help.

I did notice I tried it last weekend I got one variation of the sign made and printed and tested it myself while I was here and it did help So I'm excited to see if that really solves our problem. It's kind of a more money more problem Situation. I know busy with appointments and with parties and that's a good

Jen Thyrion: thing Yes to be able to host a live event A party there because obviously I could tell just from where you're at, obviously it's so beautiful and amazing.

So it's like a lot of people don't really, I find this a lot because obviously I'm, I'm completely mobile, right? So, um, I'm always talking about parties because I love them so much, but people are like, Oh, I don't really like to host or I don't want people at my home. So it's kind of nice that they can like come to your place and host their own party somewhere else.

They don't have to worry about cleaning up. And like, so do you feel like that's obviously been one of your most popular, like attractions for the brick and mortar? Yeah.

Ashley Donnell: That's been huge for, for us this summer. This weekend, we have a bachelorette party first thing in the morning at one store. In the afternoon, we're hosting an 11 year old's birthday party for her, like, side of her friends.

We do that a lot. We do a lot of bachelorette, a lot of birthday parties, that kind of a thing. And like you said, not everybody has the space or the ability. to host people. I don't even like going to parties at like pop up parties. I'm weird about entering people's homes. Okay. Yeah. It has to be a really big party for me to agree to come to your house.

Okay.

Jen Thyrion: How many people are going to be there? And then I'll decide.

Ashley Donnell: Like if it's less than 12, I'm probably not doing it.

Jen Thyrion: I love it. Well, yeah, it does. It kind of like, do you guys still do mobile things or no? I mean, I know you do like you're a traveling woman, but I'm saying like, do you go to people's homes and do parties too?

Not

Ashley Donnell: as often, but yeah, we really encourage them to come to our shop. So my minimum is much higher for me to come to you. And then it's also a lot higher beyond that to get any kind of host benefit. We do a host benefit and it's usually a gift. Not necessarily a host, we call it the Guest of Honor. So, whoever our Guest of Honor is, we'll get a little discount.

Um, we give them a 75 when our minimum is met, basically, which for us is six different experiences. Um, and that's the other thing people like about us, is like, if they come to us, they can choose from everything we offer. They, one girl can do a charm bracelet, one can do a trucker hat, one can do a wide brim hat, one can get her ear pierced, one can get a permanent bracelet, like, whatever.

To do, and as long as six or more are purchased, then the host gets a 75 credit. And then if we come to you, if it's within, um, 20 minutes of one of our locations, it's nine to get the host credit. Um, if it's 30 minutes, it's 12, 40 size minutes and above, it's 15 to get the host credit. So like I'm making you work for it.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah, yeah, but it does motivate them, which is awesome, right? Yeah,

Ashley Donnell: well, and it makes it like more worth the time. Mileage and time and Set up and tear down and organize getting them our pop up machine and all of those things. Exactly.

Jen Thyrion: So in your brick and mortar, obviously you talked about going from like, I guess like fast fashion type jewelry to the permanent jewelry, but you talk about charm bar, trucker hat, wide brim.

So when did all that evolve? Like it did it all at once or you've gradually added?

ded higher quality jewelry in: 2020

And it sort More of a value where like consumers are wanting like better quality. So we started offering, we do a lot of stainless steel jewelry, like ready to wear jewelry. I've found three different factories that I buy from, um, that offer really great quality items. And then they're also a little bit more exclusive too.

So that makes a difference. As well, and then we also carry gold plated jewelry, which everybody talks negative about gold plates in permanent jewelry because we've all been trained and taught that like gold plated isn't good, but in ready to wear jewelry, gold plated has an amazing place, like I buy gold plates.

specific to the type of piece, so we buy a lot of gold plated, like, really statement earrings. Like, I have one pair of earrings that is, like, 18 inches long, and, like, you're not going to tower in that.

Jen Thyrion: No, no, exactly,

Ashley Donnell: exactly. And you wouldn't want to pay a fine metal price for them. So I buy my pieces in gold plated.

Things that, like, she's going to wear two dozen times. She's going to wear it to the rodeo, she's going to wear it to a concert, she's going to wear it to a wedding, whatever. Um, or if she's extra like me, she wears them every day. They're not decorative pieces that are meant to sleep and shower and swim in.

And then we have our state of the field collection. I'm going to mix some sterling silver in there too, um, because it's another really good affordable quality metal. So we have this in sterling in our, we call it our luxe collection and that's all the waterproof jewelry. We still carry fashion jewelry to this day because there is, you know, a girl that wants a pair of 18 earrings and fine, that has a place.

So we carry all three and we're just really big on educating the customer on what they're buying.

Jen Thyrion: Literally, it's okay in my opinion to like, I've been making jewelry for a long time. I have been working with goldfield for over 15 years, but I have to say I'm buying gold plated all the time. But there's a difference in plating too, which people don't understand.

There's some plating. I mean, you buy plated beads from like, let's just even say Michael's, right? I mean, my daughter literally just made me a beaded bracelet, my five year old and it was by the end of the night, it was tarnishing. Okay. So like, there's a difference between Michael's beads and there's a difference between the Quality plated that will last you said up to how many wears depending on if you are, you know, getting exposure to chemicals and things like that.

But I think that there's a place for all of it and it doesn't mean it's bad, right? It's just that it's you're educating like what the difference is because that's, that's the problem. How do you feel about stainless steel for permanent jewelry?

Ashley Donnell: I weld seamless steel, but I use gold filled and sterling jump rings.

I buy with satin. We tar we price it at 60. So it's our most inexpensive. It's our introductory price point. I don't buy staple dainty styles in it. I don't buy what you would find in gold silk. So I'm very particular in quick buy. So it's our more fashion chains. So like I'll, I'll buy like the, like this.

That the gold fill one just doesn't hold up because it's so flat. Or I'll buy like little bit thicker and I'll buy them un soldered so that they will break if they get caught. Like I, obviously, this is only for people who are watching, but it's like a, about a, a two centimeter long paperclip. I would never weld that.

So this Sterling, but it's unsoldering. So it'll break as it gets pulled on. So I buy like very, I don't carry any Figaro styles. I don't carry any paperclip styles. Like you will never find me welding stainless paper because it's my number one chain. I only carry it in gold still, so I don't take away my stainless paper.

Higher price.

Jen Thyrion: This is like been brought up a lot or kind of a way a hard way that people are I finding because even my girls of communicating of what the metal differences is and it's like so people are saying that gold stainless is not going to tarnish what makes gold fill higher price because even some people like will state like oh well I'm buying the stainless steel chain that really I'm buying the same like money per foot for a gold fill.

So how do you communicate to your customer what the difference is and what is a higher quality metal?

Ashley Donnell: So we just say that stainless steel is a more affordable price point because it doesn't take as much gold content for the gold to last. Our stainless steel is ion plated, which means it is bonded at the molecular level.

And then our gold fill has a minimum of 5 percent gold, so the fine metal content is a little bit higher. We just leave it at that. Like, both are water resistant, both are tarnish resistant, both are meant to last. I have stainless steel jewelry that says that. flat sheath that I wear is four years old and I don't take it off like ever and it is still looks brand new.

Ion plated stainless steel is like my favorite metal.

Jen Thyrion: Really? So, so for me, I noticed the tone of gold is different though. Like that's what I noticed. So for me, sometimes with stainless, it's just more darker, brassy, and I don't love that. Sometimes it depends. Like, I feel like it depends on, you know, kind of, that's also gives people an option though too, if they like that over the other.

Ashley Donnell: It's, and that's also a part of the carat because Ionplated is typically with 18 carat. It's got more of that brassier gold tone.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. Which people talk about if someone says 18 karat gold fill, that's why it does not exist. Right? I don't, does it exist? It

Ashley Donnell: does not exist. Plating and it's probably at least five percent plating, but it doesn't have the mechanical bonding that the FTC literally says.

Jen Thyrion: And that's what I almost think in my mind, like that people are justifying saying it's gold filled because maybe just like you said, they're like, Oh, well it's X percent plated. We can say it's gold fill, but it's not because it's not the same process.

Ashley Donnell: It's a, it's a difference in where it is manufactured and like that little bit of a cultural difference as far as commerce goes.

So in Brazil and in China both, it is considered gold filled. If it's 5%, it doesn't require the mechanical bonding that the U. S. does. Well, good to know. It means a lot. Actually, I didn't know that. Yeah. That's why you'll find, like, Brazilian or Chinese manufacturers. It's not that they're being dishonest on their own, like, integrity.

It's just a difference in The U S regulation.

Jen Thyrion: Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. I think that the, especially the companies that are consistently talked about that when people post, they're like, that's not gold, Phil, that's not gold, Phil, and you know, over time you can almost, when you're more educated about it too, you can tell, like if you have like a chunky connector and they're saying it's gold, Phil.

That's a, that's not gold. I mean, that would be a lot of monies to be gold fill, right? Because the, you know, so it's almost, and also the process, it just can't be made in gold fill. So over time you are educating that, but if you're just starting to know nothing about jewelry, it's very overwhelming. And to try to figure out what's real and what's not, you know what I'm saying?

Ashley Donnell: I got warunged, deluxe, good, whatever you want to call it. I sent 2, 000 with them because I didn't know better. Now, majority of that I've been able to repurpose into my charm bar as gold plated or we put it on charms and sold it as gold plated off the rack. Um, so that is how

Jen Thyrion: I know that is what's great.

I mean, you know, again, if you're going to something to maybe if you can't return, you can, like you said, repurpose and now that the charm bar is obviously gaining speed, people are doing that, you know, you can, you know, repurpose it in different ways, which is great. Um, cause even for me, I, I'm very, there's some really well plated Penance like that.

I'll sell, but I'll sell it on a goldfield chain, but I'm very, you know, I'm like, this is a goldfield chain. So that way you can always change out the pennant if you want, or the charm or whatever, just know the charm itself is not goldfield. Right. So it's like you do, again, it's just educating your customer and like really just, and also you getting educated by knowing what to pass on to your customer.

Right. Like that's so important starting this business. And I can't say it enough because I feel like that is one of the, I don't want to say one of the things I see where it's like, Yeah. That starting a business doing this, it just looks fun. And of course it is. And it's easy to learn. Sure. But then there's not a lot of education behind it where it's like, it's, it's hard because I mean, I've, I've talked to the permanent jewelers that really didn't even know really what Goldfield was.

That's one of the things I think if you're, you know, Hearing this and you're, and you're into your business and you don't understand it, or you're just starting, definitely something to be aware of and educate yourself on, you know, when it comes to the different metals.

Ashley Donnell: Well, and that, that's something that the more you educate yourself on and the more you're able to comfortably talk to your customer about, it sets you apart for competing against other jewelers.

is you being more knowledgeable and confident in your knowledge. I've been at events right literally across the way from another permanent jeweler and my prices were significantly higher but they chose me because we, um, were able, like I was able to educate them on why Certain things that they were asking for wasn't available.

Brickle spill. So, I was like April 12th educator on basically metal. And what the difference is, why we pick one over another, when we pick one over another. And she was like, your knowledge is what sold me.

Jen Thyrion: Exactly. Oh yeah, people I mean, especially if they want it as you want to establish a return customer to that is so important, like to know your industry, know what you're talking about.

That's what people are going to come to you and ask you questions and trust you like that, like no one trust factor. Right. So I actually had a girl who just had her first event and she was so nervous and she was really close to a MLM that's doing like the non permanent permanent jewelry. Right. And I was like, and I'm like, I honestly wish I was there with her so badly because she said her booth was hopping and she was very slow.

And I'm like, but this is the thing. I know she is not schooled yet and knowing all the things about it, right. The metal and like, you know how to talk about it. And so I'm like, that is where it comes into play because describing to like someone, I don't know what their prices are. I actually have no idea, but we can assume they're cheaper.

Right. But also too, why would someone want it welded versus not well, like, you know, it's really trying to like communicate that stuff too. But I'm sure. Obviously being her first event, she was not, I'm sure schooled and knowing how to educate her customer. I'm sure that played into the difference of the booths and the busyness.

Ashley Donnell: And it takes time to get that confidence to be able to sell yourself without sounding like you're talking negatively about a competitor either, but it's also okay. I'm a fan. Like I'm, I will talk negative about my competitors without saying their name, but I will say here is why my product is superior.

Or here is what is wrong with our product or, you know, like people will be like, Oh, well, I was going to go by the Kendra Scott earrings and I'm like, great, they're going to turn green and they all laugh because it's like, I mean, you're not wrong because we're speaking with truth, then it's like,

Jen Thyrion: Oh yeah, I've always said there's a difference in like, lack of a better term, talking shit or talking honest.

Like there, I think there's a difference, right? There's a difference in the two. If you're being honest, but same as me, I'm never like pointing someone out or saying, but if someone says something to me about a permanent jeweler too, I'm like, Oh, okay. Like maybe she just wasn't aware because especially if someone comes to me with a green chain or whatever it is, dark chain, I don't think that permanent jewelry bought that specifically knowing it was going to tarnish.

They didn't know. So it's like, yeah. I'm not here to like, because again, it's all about where we are in our business. Learning as we go, there's all different levels, okay. Of like knowledge and where you are in your experience. So it's like, I'm not here to talk down about anybody. It's just a fact of like, okay.

Like she, obviously there was maybe a supplier. She tried that. She said it was Goldfield and she didn't know. It's not like she intentionally bought plated jewelry and put it on his permanent jewelry. So, you know what I mean? It's just like. But it's those, it's being honest, I get, you know, yes, this is not gold fill.

Like there's no question about that. So actually going into that, what do you feel? Cause you, you're experienced enough, like with your brick and mortars, obviously having employees and seeing other, you're, you go to so many events where you do meet other permanent jewelers, I'm assuming. What do you see as the biggest mistake people are making in, in, in, in, in this industry.

Ashley Donnell: I definitely feel like it comes back to not being educated around the metals, which I also goes back to a lot of these training companies are simply training on how to weld, which is, you know, And I think that's the easiest part of being a permanent jeweler, welding is the easiest part and all they're doing is saying, buy from these people or just buy from me, which is what a lot of them want is for you to buy just from whoever trained you and not sharing or they're just sharing a vendor list without like, here's what to look for, here's why you should buy that.

And I think it's just like a lack of education in that area. metal. I think it's a lack of, I guess, confidence in pricing or like not understanding that when you only charge 35 for a bracelet because You can, you're taking away from other reputable businesses. I can not charge 35 for a bracelet because I have overhead, like rent.

I have overhead, like employees, business insurance. Um, I've been at pop ups and I've had my friend, this girl that I just did not really get along with. Um, my friend asked her why her prices were so much cheaper than other permanent jewelry people. She was like, you know, do you have insurance? Because she was, um, going to have somebody come into her store to do a pop up.

And she was like, oh girl, if you're good at this, you don't need insurance. Oh, okay. Yeah. I feel really comfortable with you welding on my skin.

Jen Thyrion: That's like someone saying they're good at driving so they don't need a driver's license. That's how I feel. You

Ashley Donnell: know

Jen Thyrion: what I

Ashley Donnell: mean? So it's like, those are the things, long term will harm our industry.

I think consumers will soon enough be educated enough that they don't want the cheapest option, that they're not actually buying the same quality. products when they're doing that.

Jen Thyrion: This is a thing too, like about pricing. And I know it's hard for someone to think like, we know the profit margins that go into this, but it's, it's really, it's the service that is what this is.

And also too, like you said, there's an industry standard and I know they're not doing it again intentionally. But if you are dumbing the industry down and it's, it's again, like hurting everyone as a whole and also what permanent jewelry is and play and it's on downplaying its specialness. And it's like, almost like when we go get our nails done, right?

Like I had to, you can go buy a bottle of nail polish for 5 or something or cheaper, but yet you're spending how much money to get your nails done, which means that you probably could do yourself if you really wanted to. Right. But also at the same time, most likely. The nail place you go to and the one across the street, it's not like they're 50 percent less, right?

Everyone, usually if everyone's increasing, they're all increasing around the same time and they might be a few dollars difference. And depending on the, again, the place and the experience, you might go to a high end, just like you do like Walmart's different than target different than Nordstrom. Right. I mean, there's levels of like, you know, retail as you know, but it's like all in all, there's an industry standard.

Ashley Donnell: Right, we're gonna pay between 40 and 60 to get your nails done. Now, it depends on, you know, I go to the 60 place because I walk in and they know that I'm coming, I made an appointment, I have my girl. When I sit down after she's done filing, she gets me a margarita, she doesn't even have to ask. I don't have to ask, it's just like, Johnny, margarita time over here.

And I'm going to talk a little bit more so that I don't have to sit and wait at the salon that doesn't take appointments and doesn't give me a margarita and doesn't have a conversation with me and they just rush me in and out and I don't want that. So I paint a bit more, and I'm totally willing to do that.

It's the same as, like, I go to the more expensive hair girl because I know that her quality is good because she continues to invest in education and, like, growing her skill and learning more and, like, becoming more knowledgeable. And when she's doing my hair, she's telling me, you know, we're gonna do this with your color this time because, you know, We're going to fall.

It's going to give you more dimension in a different way than it did all summer. Like I'm educating me while I'm in her chair.

Jen Thyrion: Exactly. That like, yes, you're going to tell that person who's doing 30 bracelets. It's like, yeah, they might be doing it because they can, it's a side hustle, but they're just doing it because they want extra money.

And they're like, Oh, I can do this for 30 bucks. But are they again, educated staying up with the trends? Passionate about their business, offering new things like probably not. So is that somebody who someone's going to come back to again and again? Probably not. Right.

Ashley Donnell: Oh, the customer is going to the 30 girl is going to find whoever's cheap next month to not so thing, the cheap customer.

Is always going to be loyal to the price, and they're never going to be loyal to you as a human, you as a business, they're always going to be chasing the next best deal, and that's fine, but that's not a customer I want, because I'm going to have to be Constantly retargeting and constantly pulling new people.

Jen Thyrion: Well, yeah, the whole like saying they say, like how, um, the comparison of finding a new customer versus a repeat, right? There's a whole saying about that, right? Like you're seven times more, you know, it's like harder to get a new customer versus, uh, you know, retaining it. And also everyone, as you know, different, they value different things.

They might not value this where they're like, yeah, they're that, they're that coupon cutter. That's going to like find the next like discount for it, but they might value something else where they're willing to spend more money. So it's like, who are you? You know what I mean? Are you the person? Cause also keep in mind like how you want people to feel like, as we all know, we feel different walking into a Walmart versus a target versus a Nordstrom versus anthropology, right?

Like it's like, would you rather get your permanent jewelry done in a beautiful place like yours or get it done in a garage because someone's doing it in their garage and they can offer 25. dollar bracelet. You know what I mean? Like, so it's like all those things to keep in mind when you're starting, right?

It's like, what's your brand? What are you saying? How do you want people to feel like, you know, and also too, like you said, you're very distinct in who you are. And you know, and that's, I think one of the things I think plays into the success of business is knowing who you are and your clarity behind your business.

You have a look, right? Someone might not be disco ball. Right. And they're like, they see someone else who's just maybe Again, more vanilla, maybe, let's say. And that's just more them. And that's okay. You know, cause that's not your customer. 100%. Do you have any experience of people coming to you that you realize like aren't your customer and then they just, you know, like, can you kind of tell?

Ashley Donnell: Yeah. So if their first question is about price, they're probably not my customer. I actually had a customer, well, she's not a customer, a person, text one of my stores last weekend and she said, I got a permanent bracelet from another small business. But I love that you have a convenient location in Sonorosa, which is one of my shopping malls.

So I would love to come get another one from you. Can you tell me how much like a simple gold chain would be? And my employee replied back like our most simple chain is 75. And she goes, Okay, I'll find someone cheaper. Not my customer. Immediately, not my customer. And my employee, I don't know which one of them did this, but I want to hug them for it.

Just part reacted to the text. I'm actually okay with it. Like that's so on brand for us because we are a little sassy and like, okay, good luck. Goodbye.

Jen Thyrion: Well, I love it. It basically you are who you are and people like, there's no BS, right? Like, that's how I feel like. Your brand is too, what you see is what you get.

There's no, it's out there.

Ashley Donnell: We're very real. Like we're just like, we're all next door. So we did a full staff meeting. Um, in May, we have another one coming up in September. Um, but we did a branding exercise where we came up with like, who are like average customer is and like our customer avatar. And then we said, okay, now let's do one for our brand because our brand is different than our customer.

And we decided that our average customer is probably like the girl next door kind of looks and acts like Kaylee Kluco from Big Bang Theory, she probably drives a white SUV, but our brand is probably more like. Blake Lively, like still very girl next door, but like next level beautiful, right? Like approachable, but like the coolest girl in the room.

She's driving, yeah, she's driving a white SUV, but she is driving the white Denali. Like, you know, the, the car you aspire to, just a little bit, like it's still realistic, but it's just a little higher. And so we've decided that's kind of the difference. It's like our actual customer is the girl next door.

And our brand is the aspirational girl next door, if that makes any sense at all. And I kind of tried to help the girl. Think about like putting on that hat when they get dressed for work. Are you wearing something trendy and cool? Even if you just put a little twist on something to make it a little bit cooler.

Jen Thyrion: Agreed. It's almost like the alter ego. You know what I mean? Your little alter ego of your brand. You know what I mean? That you want to play into, which kind of makes it fun, right? Cause you're like, it's you, but elevated.

Ashley Donnell: So in my. Real life, I go by Ashley. In my business, I go by Ash, because I felt the same way.

Like, Ashley is a little too basic, but Ash is like, just a little different, a little edgy, a little. Little edgy, like you don't want to F with Ash, you

Jen Thyrion: know? Yeah,

Ashley Donnell: right. But in real life, like, I don't know anybody who actually calls me Ash, other than in my business.

Jen Thyrion: Oh my God. Well, now I'm going to start calling you Ash.

Is that okay or no?

Ashley Donnell: Yeah. You can call me whatever you want. It's fine.

Jen Thyrion: Okay. Cool. Um, okay. So what's the key to finding good employees? Cause I feel like you have a decent amount, correct? Do you have to at this point?

Ashley Donnell: I do. Um, we're up to eight right now, eight retail employees, I should say. And then myself and my general manager, who is also my big sister.

So I say eight real employees and then me and my sister. But my goal by the end of September is to get that number to 10. Uh, we need at least 2 more, maybe 3 more, depending on what availability and needs those girls that we hire have. And I would say, one of the keys is, um, not being afraid of hiring employees.

Um, I think there's a lot of fear around that, but I find that their best employees are my girls with a side hustle of their own, um, or girls who aspire to have a side hustle because they're a little bit more creative thinking. They're a little more innovative. They're willing to do a little bit more.

Like, I was a really good employee when I was an employee because they're I just have that drive and most entrepreneurs have that. Um, and then I also look for girls that I would want as friends, if that makes sense. Not necessarily that I'm friends with my employees, but we are friendly. We spend a lot of time together.

A lot of the times, um, I'll take them on the road traveling with me. Like, we need to be able to hang out at night. Um, but also the same traits that I look for in a friend are the same traits I look for Employee, you need to be personable, going, able to talk. My favorite interview question is what are three small talk topics that you can talk to a customer about that have nothing to do with our product?

And if you can't, like, off the top of your head name three things, I can't help you. I mean, pretty much for us, it's also like look and style as well. Um, we look for girls that are a little bit more fashion forward that have an eye for that because that is part of our brand. So if you're not into the fashion side of fashion, Our business then, I don't know that it's the best matchup for us.

So I look for a lot of girls that have that passion for fashion because that comes also back to like my drive in my business is to provide employment in the fashion industry.

Jen Thyrion: So are they, obviously they're schooled in everything, right? Permanent jewelry, charm bar, trucker hat, like they know how to do it all.

Ashley Donnell: So everybody who works for us does everything. I've toyed with the idea of hiring kind of a Saturday only. Younger girl to just do like, hat bar or retail and just kind of act almost like a hostess. But I've gone back and forth on if it's better for me to hire somebody like that or somebody that I can just like full train and I haven't really decided what, what avenue I want to go down.

Jen Thyrion: Hey, busy entrepreneur. As you know, being a business owner, you have to wear all the hats. You're a social media manager, marketer, graphic designer, accountant, photographer, videographer, web designer, business coach, scheduler, and the list goes on. I know how overwhelming it can be, and this is why I created the Golden Link Society.

It's our monthly permanent jewelry membership. We have a weekly call to talk about all the things, but not only that, including monthly photography and video to use for your social media and marketing, Canva templates, monthly business expertise. monthly training, support group, discount, and first dibs on Goldilinks supplies, and more.

My intention is to create a beautiful community of permanent jewelers that want to level up their businesses together by creating lasting friendships and having fun. This is what I wish existed when I started my business almost 10 years ago. If you want to know more, check it out at goldilinkssociety.

com or at allthethingspermanentjewelry. com. I hope to see you there. Well, and I think the whole thing going back to like what people are scared to hire entrepreneurs. Like, are you, I think the main thing is they're scared someone's going to like take that knowledge of permanent jewelry and head on to their own permanent jewelry business.

I mean, is that, I don't know if non competes even are a thing anymore or it really is solid or if it even matters. But, um, so what are your thoughts on that? It's different to be a side hustle or like entrepreneur, maybe in a different sense, but I think mostly people are worried because everyone's always worried about the competition.

Like, Popping up in their area. So what are your thoughts on that?

Ashley Donnell: I mean, I'm in a city where there are 35 that I'm aware of, other permanent jewelry. And we are by far, I like to say we're the largest and the best in the city. For me, I don't have that fear because they're never going to be able to catch up.

And anybody who has to follow is never going to be ahead. So I'm caught. Watching the trends coming through, looking for what could be next pivoting and changing and switching. Um, so we introduced trucker hats last year and I was just pressing graphics on them, uh, and that was really fun or like people would pick like one patch and put it in the center, but then last kind of late fall, the patchy trucker hat started and it's kind of been nonstop since.

So we kind of. Shifted and pivoted that way. I've noticed like my Wybram hat sales are down. So I just introduced ear pierce stand because it's another really cool, unique service offering, but I'm also hoping that will help boost our retail sales to balance our hat sales being down. So it's like, you kind of have to be up.

And, and the, like, thinking not just about today, not just about tomorrow, but next year and the year after, like, what's going to happen

Jen Thyrion: then? I know, and don't you feel like the trends are happening so fast? They are. I blame TikTok.

Ashley Donnell: And that makes me a little nervous. But also, if you're innovative enough and you jump in with both feet, then you can be the first and be the best.

Like, we don't do anything halfway. Um, so Charm Bark's really been crazy popular this summer. And now that all these, like, boutique wholesalers that are selling, Charm Bar kit and it's like a hundred charms and I'm like, that's cute. I'm ordering like a hundred different charms per order. Like that's cute, but it's not going to ever conflict with what we do.

Uh, I'm like, I just, it's a charm bar order today. And I specifically went and looked at all of what the boutique wholesalers are selling and specifically did not buy those charms. Because I don't want the same thing that is in every other store. So I go out of my way to find, like, find those unique things that, it takes me a lot more time.

I just spent six hours on PandaHall. If you've ever shopped on PandaHall, you know that I just spent almost six hours. And like, I'm cross eyed a little bit, but it was because I got things that not everybody's gonna have.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. That's amazing. I know searching on PandaQual is a challenge. Like, I don't know if there's some secret or something.

Ashley Donnell: No, the secret is, the secret is spend

Jen Thyrion: six hours

Ashley Donnell: pretty much. It's a, it's a day. Um, but yeah, so I, I would say like, they're never going to be able to be you. They're never going to be able to have whatever you pack. They're, they're not like.

Jen Thyrion: And who you are too. Like I said, if you're solid and like who you're, who you're serving, what your brand is, who you are and what you're, you know.

Putting out there. I mean, there's certain people going to be attracted to you versus someone else who has a totally different vibe. There's a lot of things that come into play with it, but what do you feel? I mean, maybe you already answered the question, but like, what do you feel has played into this, your success?

Like, is it, is it just going deep with everything and kind of being ahead of the trends in a way and going hard and going big and with things, or, um, do you feel like it's because you have so many locations and you're, you're kind of hard to miss, you know what I mean? Like people just know who you are.

Cause you're everywhere. I mean, how do you feel? What do you feel is. You're, you're the secret to your success.

Ashley Donnell: I do think that it is actually that I am consistently like ahead of the trend. So um, Charm Bar, we started doing lightly last summer. We went hard on it in the fall. And then obviously now it's really popular now.

But people have like, people associate it with us. Same thing with permanent jewelry. We were one of the first to market. We're still the only like true wide rim hat bar in Kansas City. So it's like, we're always kind of ahead a little bit, but I also think it comes down to our branding and our marketing and the confidence that we have.

That I have in that. And like, there's only two ways to make money in business. And it's when you can find like that magic piece of both that it really hits. Um, and I say one is volume and the second is margin. And when you can find the right balance of the both is where like you really hit that success.

And I go hard margin. We run our cost of goods is only about 13 percent of our sales, which is amazing. I have amazing team members. because I pay them well. They are always willing to go above and beyond and I pay them on, um, commission on all of our skilled services and then they get tips on all of our services.

So permanent jewelry and piercing, they get commission. Char bar and hopper, they just get tipped. But my girls are averaging between like 20 and 32 an hour, which for most of them being in college is pretty phenomenal. And the girl that is at 20 right now only works on Thursdays. So that's our slowest day of the week.

My Saturday girls are consistently making 28 to 32 an hour, which is killer for their age. And I think that paying them well helps me retain them. And also when we have a chaotic Saturday, they're happy because They know that they're making money and they want the busyness. So they're a little bit more invested into the business as well.

Um, and it took me a while to find my paid of core team members and, and we do rotate through them and that can be hard and it's hard to accept, um, that like, you know, we rely on our team members there. Our entire existence and our whole time whole life basically at for them. We're a piece and a stop along the way.

Right. We're an, an, an ends, a means to the end. Nobody goes to work for fun. Sorry. They just don't go to work to make money. They are probably going to move on. Like it's. Odds are very low that anybody in this type of job in this industry, it's a life long career for them. And that is hard to accept, is that we have to pour into them as if they're our life, knowing that we're just a stop along their way.

I think about it like all of the team members who have worked for me past or are at least a little bit better of a human today because they worked for me. They've learned some type of skill along the way. They've been shown that if you work hard, there is. Success on the other side, whatever that might look like to them, um, but it is completely possible.

Even my employees that have left on a bad note, and there have been a few, I think all eventually will say they're happy that they worked for me at some point in their lives.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, yeah. I mean, even if it's not, I don't know, we can all speak to our own personal experiences when it comes to maybe a ugly situation with a job or even a relationship, let's say, you know, in the end, it's like you look back and you're grateful for it, right?

In a minute, you might not be grateful for even a year or two or three, but you look back and you're like the lessons you learned. I mean, there's, there's a reason why that was kind of like there in your journey. Right. And you definitely are part of that. But like, I think what you said prior is like, knowing that's going to happen, that they are going to be temporary and this is not a career.

It's like, Playing into the expectation. You kind of have to your expectations. This is also something I feel when someone starts a business and you kind of think it's going to be bright and shiny and so fun, permanent jewelry, a boutique. Oh my God, how bright and shiny. But really it's like the expectations need to be checked.

And like from the beginning, it's like, yes, if you're gonna have a brick and mortar and have employees, you need to know that's what to expect. You can't expect someone to stay with you for five years. You have to expect that there's going to be transitions and turnaround and just Managing firing and hiring and you know what I mean, like that's a whole, it's amazing to have employees, but as you can imagine, as you know, I should not say imagine, as you know the best, managing the employees is a whole nother job plus a job, like it's like insane, right?

It's like you said, to keep them happy and appreciated and you know, it's like that alone you need to pour into. It's like having those expectations, like it sounds nice, like, Oh, just have a business and hire people and blah, you know, like. Let it out. No, it's actually a lot of work and a lot of management and knowing what your expectations are around that is helpful.

Ashley Donnell: I won't say lucky. I'm fortunate enough that I've built the business to where the shops are in about 90 percent without me physically in the business. Like I will work usually like one shift a week. If that, um, there are weeks where I work more if, you know, girls have things going on or anything like that.

Or August, I'm working a lot more because one of my girls is a. Sorority recruitment lead. And so she's like, I can't work at all in August, but I'll start coming home for weekends, starting in September. So I'm holding her job for her for the month. And I'm just kind of working some of the shifts, but for the most part, they run about 90 percent without me.

I was just gone for the entire month of like, well, for four weeks. And. The shops ran just fine without me. We had to close one day because my girl had COVID. Nothing we can do about that. But other than that, they ran pretty much without me on the daily, which is kind of my, my goal because that's

Jen Thyrion: my exit.

Right. You travel and do a lot of markets, correct? Is like, are you on the road a lot?

Ashley Donnell: Um, so I'm slowing down a lot. Okay. I did seven shows on the road this fall. I'm only doing four.

Jen Thyrion: Is that because you enjoy it? Like you enjoy like going out and you know, going to different places. I mean, tell me more about like, cause obviously you seem to be going to like different states.

I mean, you're traveling a decent amount, right? You're not just going to the. The market down the street, right?

Ashley Donnell: Yeah, I was just up in Idaho for four weeks, um, which is 26 hours away. But yes, I am like, travel is like my passion and it's what makes me happy. I have ADHD, so like, everyday being routine is not conducive.

For me, um, so being able to have every week look and feel and be in a different environment and be different people and different vibes and everything is fantastic for me. At one point pre Brick and Mortar, actually no it was the year we had our Brick and Mortar, our first Brick and Mortar, I did shows across 19 different states.

Jen Thyrion: Wow.

Ashley Donnell: It was dumb and I will never do it again. Never ever do that again. I over committed. So

Jen Thyrion: before you had a brick and mortar, were you doing permanent jewelry with, with that? No, I was just selling

Ashley Donnell: our product. So jewelry, hat, we did not have hat bar. Well, I introduced hat bar halfway through that year, but we were mostly jewelry, purses and hats.

Um, just general retail, but I would never do that again. Zero out of 10 do it. At one point, I drove up 14 hours to Ohio, dropped off my trailer at a show, then I flew from Ohio. to Oklahoma, helped set up a show, then flew to Nevada and did a show. And then I flew from Nevada back to Ohio to do a show.

Jen Thyrion: Wow.

Ashley Donnell: That was dumb. Yeah. Never doing that again.

Jen Thyrion: Lesson learned, right? Yeah.

Ashley Donnell: No, my real goal is that after bringing, like, I'm hoping to taper even further down in spring. Um, I'm going to start, I'm going to start my master's and my doctorate program. So. I'm hoping to be home a little bit more and be doing a little bit less.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. And that's, what's great about being an entrepreneur is you can kind of like choose, right? And that, you know, like, Hey, like that was a season of hustle and travel and doing my thing. And then now I want to do this. And you have this beautiful business you grew that like pretty much runs itself.

That's amazing. Like, so where do you see your business going in the next like year or so, or, you know, just in the future? Where do you see this going?

Ashley Donnell: So I'm hoping. By the end of this year to create a full time position for a market manager in Kansas City to basically be in charge of my three locations.

Um, and rotate through the locations to help me with buying for the shops and like be my go to person for that kind of feedback, um, and help me attend market and buy and all of that, give them a budget and be like, what do you need from Charm Bar? Here you go, go buy it. And then my long term goal is to sell probably within three to five years or to franchise it to where it's less intensive of even further.

Because I, like I said, I wanna start my master's program that rolls into a doctorate program. So the next four years are gonna be a little intense with that, but most people who do the program that I'm gonna do have a full-time job alongside of it. So it should be

Jen Thyrion: dual. So what do you wanna, you're gonna be Dr.

Ash. What? , Dr. Ash, what Are you gonna be a Dr. Ash in What? What are you going, what is your passion here?

Ashley Donnell: So my goal is to be awesome. a college professor.

Jen Thyrion: That's amazing. You would be kick ass. Oh my God. I'm

Ashley Donnell: trying to make it

Jen Thyrion: happen. I love that so much going back because I want to talk about PGA, but it goes back to what you said.

It kind of stuck out to me because you said the two important things and having a successful business, right? Is like volume and margins, right? Or, but also when it comes into play with that, I feel like of course it's first education about it all, because I have to say prior to me doing permanent jewelry and why.

little boutique space back in: 2014

Right? So like the knowledge grew my confidence, which enabled me to connect. So here we are eight years down the seven, eight years into having a business, then opening the permanent jewelry. I had a totally different mindset and knowledge than I did when I had the. boutique business. So it wasn't hard for me to have those margins, the volume, know those things going into this business versus my last, I guess it kind of goes into the PGA because tell us about that, like education, all those things.

I want to hear more about like how all that ties in.

Ashley Donnell: Yeah, so the association is being created. We're hoping to do our first webinar next month, but the main goal is to provide a place for continuing education and help to create some like best practices and standards in the industry from a place where we can just like create those standards and help set the tone and, and help give business owners the confidence to build a business that is safe, that is.

Has longevity and truly just like increase our industry. It's a professional organization and the main focus truly is continuing education. So we're going to have some amazing vendor partners in there that we'll be offering just expert guided webinars, as well as learning from other people in the industry.

Uh, I know Daniel Watt is going to do. A webinar for us on metal and like basically taking her pjx top and kind of shortening it a little bit to make it more appropriate for a webinar, but like, how do you shop for jewelry? Like, how do you look for team? What? How is gold still made and learning all of those things?

I know that Kurt is going to do one on like, How do you care for your tools? How to repair tools? That kind of a thing. Sunstone's going to have one of their welding experts lead a webinar and like troubleshooting your weld. Or, you know, I'm probably going to do one on retail mass and like, just on all different pieces, the permanent jewelry business that when you are educated on all of it, it will help.

It's kind of the goal to make it a ongoing PJX so we can just all become better. Business owners. So it's 99 for the entire year. And in order to be a member and renew your membership, you have to attend at least eight of the webinars. So whether it's live, you watching the recording, uh, you have to watch at least eight of them.

And we've got a webinar system that tracks all of that for us, which is awesome. But yeah, I'm really excited to get it off the ground and launched and going. Um, it's been about a year in the making.

Jen Thyrion: Okay. Yeah. I have to say, like, just even me being in business, as long as I have, like, I think sometimes people get to a point where they're like, cause I actually ran into a local permanent jeweler and I was asking about PJX, I was asking people like, crazy, are you going, are you going?

And she's like, well, really? I mean, do you feel like I need to go? I mean, I'm doing pretty good and I'm like two years in the business. I'm like, there's always something that you can learn and improve. And that's the only way you're going to evolve and scale your business is to keep yourself up with trends.

Just knowledge. There's things I was doing too. I thought like I've been making jewelry for so long. You just kind of do the things you do. And then you realize when you're exposed to someone else's like methodology or way of thinking, you're like, Oh my God, boom. Like I'm just so inside my head, you know, it's like, and you get to a point where you do get kind of like lack of a better term, like kind of like.

You know, like, Oh no, I'm good. Like my business is doing good. Like, what do I need? But it's like, you're always can learn, you always can improve or make things easier for yourself. Like maybe you're doing something that's like actually harder and may taking you more time. And so, um, and also just connecting with people.

There's nothing like that and where they can lead to. So I'm such a believer and like, obviously PJX in person is like, they're nothing like other than in person, but also virtual, like, yeah, getting trainings, keeping yourself. That's what's going to grow your business. If you want to grow your business.

That's what you do. You know what I mean? Like, you know, that's going to grow more confident and especially specific niche down business help because, you know, we can listen and read business books all day long, but if it's not, you know, specific to permanent jewelry, there's, you know, it's hard like to kind of sometimes associate that, you know?

Ashley Donnell: And our industry is so different than any other, even like, because we're like this weird mix of jewelers, beauty professional service providers, and retail fashion people, and it's like, Our industry has all these different personalities and different strengths, and if we can all come together and learn from each other, from different strengths, how to make it all work together, that's where, like, the real magic

Jen Thyrion: happens.

Agreed. I love that. So, I know you're, you read a lot, I'm assuming. What is your favorite business books?

Ashley Donnell: Oh, I'm actually, like, the worst person about those. Um, I get bored on them. Um, so do you, you do audio? I've tried and I like tune it out. Do you? Okay. Yeah, I'm way more of an in person, so I try attend as many apparel markets as I can.

I try to attend two to three a year. And all of those have really educational like topics and educators. during the market. But then I also try to attend at least one summit or, um, something like PJX or a retreat or a business conference of some sort each quarter. So I'm more of an in person education than a book reader.

I agree with you completely. I haven't found the right one yet, I guess.

Jen Thyrion: Well, it's funny. I, I also know I have not been, you know, diagnosed so much, but I am in total ADHD, Enneagram 7. Like I can't, so it's hard for me. Like I'm a, I'm a business podcast free cause I can do something and listen to that. So that's fine.

Um, but books, yes. Like I will start them. I'm not finished. So I have so many unfinished.

Ashley Donnell: Yeah. Um, but I let me sit down and read a fiction book. I will read it, uh, In like five hours. Like I'm a speed reader, but when it comes to business book, I like get bored into now almost immediately.

Jen Thyrion: But I'm, I'm, I'm hearing this more and more and that's why I'm like, I know there's certain people that will, that that can read and digest that really well and stuff, but I think there's nothing like, that's why I'm such a preacher of it and like, I was like of in person because nothing's gonna hit different than me listening to you in person in the class versus like, you.

You know, I'm reading what you're saying. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just different. You don't know how people are saying things. And like, again, the way something can be said in the same way from a different person, but hit you different. Right. So it's like, I don't know, there's nothing like it.

Ashley Donnell: Like connecting with other people at the conference after a class about a class. I learned it, uh, after I gave one of my chats at PJX and I've also done like a similar topic in a group coaching. And, like, two of the girls who were in my group coaching were like, Yeah, I took that and did it like this in my business.

Not doing it exactly the same way I do it, but, like, putting their own spin on it. And I, like, walked up on them talking about table at lunch. And I was like, Alex, I know you did this with your schedule, like, and she was like, yeah, so I took all the things that you did and put it into my current system. So it's not only just like going to these classes, you're going to these conferences and like taking everything that one person's style is doing.

as Bible and like the end all be all, but finding a nugget that you can take and put your own spin on. I have yet to attend a single business conference or a single class at a conference and not be able to take at least one nugget away from a class. Even when it was people that I do not personally like or agree with their tactics, I was able to learn something.

Right. There's always a nugget in there somewhere.

Jen Thyrion: Yes, I know. Because again, like you said, there's not somebody I feel ever that I've ever came across where I'm going to bow down and do everything they say. It's like more or less like, again, you, like you said, you take different things from what they say, implement it.

Also, it's going to hit a different points of your business, what you need. So like, there's been times where I go to class and it's kind of like way over my head, like nothing applies to me at that point. You know, someone who's just starting, who literally, I met so many people I was surprised at PJX that were literally just bought their machine.

Like they didn't even. So I'm like, Oh my God, these classes are going to don't get caught up in like worrying about your SEO right now. I mean, Jesus. Right. So you, but you take the class. It might plant a seed. So, you know, it's important and something to go back to. It's not, no knowledge is wasted. Like, I can't say that enough because I've been, I've been a part of many masterminds or business stuff where nothing applied to me then, but I did refer back to it later.

It gave me at least the knowledge that that is something that's important

met you at this conference in: 2022

Jen Thyrion: whatever it might be.

So what advice would you give to someone who's thinking about starting permanent jewelry right now?

Ashley Donnell: Definitely hop into some of the groups, especially the original permanent jewelry community. I would say that's the best place to start. Hang out on the internet for free. Yep. Yeah, just learn from each other.

Use those search groups like encyclopedia, like truly. Whenever somebody is just starting out, I tell them to go into those groups and go into multiple groups. And any vendor they're thinking about buying from, search the group for that vendor until you understand what you're buying. If you just search that vendor's name, odds are that it will come up.

And then I would also say, don't be afraid to jump in with both feet. Like if you dabble and you try and cheap and buy the unbranded welders and the 400 welder and you're just going to end up upgrading. I've never seen anybody. Go backwards to either of those machines, spend the extra money and get a good quality, safe machine that you can get insured that comes with product liability, all the things.

So go cheap. I would say be ready to invest about 4, at minimum. In order to start is a state that there's no cheap way to start in permanent jewelry safely. There's not. And just jump in. Like, don't delay. Just do it.

Jen Thyrion: What has been your biggest challenge, do you feel, in your business?

Ashley Donnell: For me, my biggest challenge has always been customer service.

I take everything personal. Like, to personal. Oh, so when I have a complaint, I try, I try not to take it personal, but like look at it and say, can I learn from this? Like nothing angers me more than a customer being like, my bracelet just broke off. I didn't do anything. And I'm very disappointed because of the price I paid.

Like, those are like my three triggers. My bracelet just broke off. I didn't do anything. It broke along the chain. The chain is stretched out like no other. Or, I'm so disappointed because I paid so much. Thank you for reminding me of my price. I said it. I know what you

Jen Thyrion: paid.

Ashley Donnell: But thank you. And then, I'm so disappointed.

I understand. But like, none of those words are gonna help you get your way. Just be kind. Like, when people are kind to me, when they come to me with customer service issues, I'm like, Oh, here's a refund. Here's like, whatever you need. But when people come to me and they're really rude, I'm probably a little sassier than I should be back to them.

But with me, you get what you give. So, um, But do you

Jen Thyrion: feel that like people are more like that in a message, not like face to face?

Ashley Donnell: I get a little of it face to face in the retail shop, but for the most part, yes, it's message. And I quit doing any customer service over DM. And I've shifted to where it has to all be an email because people don't expect that quite so immediate reply in an email compared to the DM.

So I'm able to sit down and process and like look into things like when they DM, they expect you to get back to them like within like 10 minutes. So I've shifted and just basically, I don't want to say a lie to the customer because I'm not lying, but I do have a VA that now is handling my emails and that has been handled.

a huge relief of me. I still, like, she'll leave things for me to take care of that are a little bit more escalated, but for the most part, she's taking care of majority of those emails now. But I'm just like, yeah, you'll need to send an email to our customer servicing here. I can't help you over DM. I'm just on social media, helping customers realize that like social media isn't for customer service.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah, I know. It's kind of like the, the lines are definitely blurred these days with that, but it's like, I do feel that's why I asked that because I think that there's so much keyboard courage and people are more apt to be a little bit more snappy over, because also you can't hear people's tone. I mean, it's the same thing as like, you know, road rage, you know, the things we would do, we probably wouldn't do in someone's face, right.

And they're inside of our cars, like what we say to people. Well, um, it's like, I feel like the same and that's why it's hard because you know, you're reading just this message on the other side to also interpreting in the way you interpret, right? So it's like, because you're not hearing them talk. So I know it can be my girl, Ashley actually also has, especially in the beginning would be like so fired up when she would get a message and be like, Oh my God, just the way she worded this, like, what does she expect?

And like, you know, I'm like, Oh my God. Well, you know, it's just, it's, it is a hard, like to talk yourself off the

Ashley Donnell: My baby, right? So I take it personally. I know. I think that's been the biggest challenge, but also just like consumers have unrealistic expectations of permanent jewelry.

Jen Thyrion: And that's why also in the beginning, I remember Ashley always saying too, that she hated the word permanent.

I hate it.

Ashley Donnell: But it's what the consumers call it and it's what it's called on Google and social media. So we have to use it, but whoever came up with it, I, to do something too. I would like to. I know, but

Jen Thyrion: do you, so that brings up, brings it to educating the customer. Do you feel like, do you say those things when someone's like, what's your, what's your routine when someone checks out or how do you communicate that?

Like, Hey, this might not, you don't want to put it in their heads. Like this might break, but what, how do you communicate that? So their expectations are checked, you know? So

Ashley Donnell: we have a waiver and that waiver has saved me multiple times in charge back. Oh

Jen Thyrion: good. Okay.

Ashley Donnell: On wood, I've had four permanent jewelry charge backs.

And I've only lost, no, I've had five, I've only lost one. And part of our spiel around the waiver is like, Hey, we'll go ahead and have you scan and fill out the waiver. Um, and then while they're filling it out, we go through the top three points on it. So the first is that once we've welded on your body, it's a final sale.

No refunds will be given for changing your mind. Um, the second is that they are designed to break for safety reasons. All jewelry should break within 12 pounds of pressure. All of our chains are about 10 pounds or less. That's for safety. If it does break, and then we go through like the repair option. So you just pop into any of our three locations.

We'll repair it for you for free. If you happen to be out of town, we'll try and connect you with somebody locally. Um, we have a really great network that we can rely on. And then the third is just care for the chain. We recommend keeping it free. from chemicals. If you put on sunscreen, spray tan, if you go swimming, anything like that, we just recommend you wash the chain after.

Just when you wash your hands, wash the chain. That's our whole spiel, but it is in the waiver as well as we verbally tell them. Like, they are designed to break and we remind them that it is for safety reasons. Like, we would rather have a broken foot than a broken hand. And usually people are like, Oh, that makes sense.

Jen Thyrion: I know it's explaining it to seems like, yeah. What seems like common sense sometimes is not common sense. But so what escalates to a refund? Do people just get irritated with the fact that they, you will not take the chain back if it breaks? Is that what escalates to that?

Ashley Donnell: Yeah. Um, so we kind of have a seven day replacement if you lose your chain policies.

So within seven days, if you, if the chain breaks and we, you don't have the chain, we don't know if it was your fault or my fault, like it could have been. a bad well. It could have been that when we cut it from the spool, we nipped that last link and we didn't notice it. I put it on, uh, it could have had a weak point in the chain from getting spooled.

Like, there's all these things that could have happened. And so what's inside is, if you're local, we'll just replace it for free. I rarely will refund Local customers and rarely do I need to refund a local customer typically if I'm offering just like a oh, here's a refund it's at a show where I probably had a line 10 deep and my eyes were getting tired and It was dark and like, I'm like, not 100 percent confident in the welds that I was doing, like, you know, it could have been a bad fit, could have been, you know, if I'm at a music festival and they're sweaty and hot, then my fit could have been off, like, there's so many things, and so, usually if they're not local, I just will refund them when they send me a photo of their both wrists.

And I'm like, okay, great. But locally, we typically just give them a hundred percent replacement. And we don't have any timeline on them getting that replacement. So, they can come in six months from now and get that replacement.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, perfect. Okay. That's awesome. Sounds pretty legit, your policies. I mean

Ashley Donnell: Well, and it also is like, it's not always just me doing the wealth.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, for sure. Exactly. So

Ashley Donnell: easy policies where I can, like, if it was our work, it's going to break within seven days, like period, it's not going to last more than seven days. If it was a bad weld, or if we cut the chain wrong or whatever, it's going to come off within that week, which is why we have that. No question asked.

Just take the rate, but I also don't sell solid gold because I don't I don't want to have to do a hundred percent replacement within a week. I was actually gonna ask you that. I

Jen Thyrion: was actually gonna ask you if you do solid gold. Yeah. Okay. I

Ashley Donnell: don't. Um, I've got a couple of customers who have like DM me interested in it and I tell them I can order it for you.

It's a pre order. I would have you measure this. I'll order it for you. And then I would be the only one who would want that. And most people, when I tell them that are pretty understanding, but they also, I'm like, or you can just get gold filled and get it for a third price.

Jen Thyrion: I know. I know. Usually when you describe it to someone to be like, my thing, I always say it's the next best thing to solid gold.

You know what I mean? Like, and show them bracelets I've had on forever. And then they're like, okay, you know, I just, some people like the idea of the fact that it's solid gold, just knowing it's solid gold, you know, so what is within your shop real quick? I know we're going to wrap up here, but like permanent jewelry, you're number one with all the things that you offer.

And it's kind of like, yeah. So do you feel like people do more than that when they go in? They're like, Oh wow, I can make a hat too. Do you feel like people end up doing more than one thing usually?

Ashley Donnell: Not usually the same day, but I think part of that is also price point, right? So nothing in our shop is cheap.

Like our average trucker hat is 55 to 75. So it's still not like a super impulsive price point. Our Charm Blur pieces are all gold plated or better quality, and the lowest I charge for a Charm is 12. Again, that's another 75 to 150 commitment. They like that they love it. We do all of those things, but they typically don't do them all on the same day.

It's rare for us to have a customer do multiple things, but people within her group do multiple things. That's where we see it more. We get a lot of friend groups or parties and things like that coming. More than just like Sally coming in and doing three things at one time.

Jen Thyrion: Anything that plays into, like you said, like just knowing if you're knowing that you could go make something for like a gift or other things, because obviously, as we know, it's hard to gift permanent jewelry.

So it's just one of those things to like, keep in mind if you want to involve your business of like what you can offer other than gift cards, obviously that's like, you know, giftable, I guess.

Ashley Donnell: But I think it's really important when you're like diversifying your business for it to have a purpose and that purpose can't be because everyone else is because it looks like fun because if you don't have a true purpose behind wanting to offer something.

It will not be successful and it will one type fun charm bar. I mean, I told you I spent almost 4, 000 this morning on charms. Like it's not

Jen Thyrion: a low fee situation. I know it really is. And if you want to do it well, just like you said, cause I can speak to that too. It's like, you know, just like the side hustle person that's offering 30 brace.

Like again, how much. Time and effort. Are they spending researching and getting different things? And, you know, cause I have to say, so actually bringing you back to Ashley again, cause she does charm bar over where she's at in Missouri, but it's very, um, small in the shop. And so she was actually thinking about doing mobily, but she realized she's like, I don't really love doing this.

I don't, I don't want to invest more. I don't. So it's like, if you're just doing it for the money or you're doing it to like, again, maybe be ahead of competition, it's, that's not the right, it's like, yeah, check your intention, obviously with everything you're doing. Like for me, I've been doing charm bar in my shop for 10 years, almost 10 years.

So like, it was easy for me to go mobile with it because I'm like, I love this shit. You know what I mean? So like, that's easy. Me, trucker hats. No interest. It takes twice as long for me to do a charm bar piece

Ashley Donnell: than a permanent jewelry piece.

Jen Thyrion: And I make less. I know. I know. And the time, like you said, researching, finding different charms, because you'll hear people like, again, I always say the number one best thing is to listen to your customer.

What are they wearing? What are they talking about? That's when you can kind of like also kind of predict what's coming up to you or like what they want to see. You know, they're asking for a certain charm. So they're like making a note of that. Okay. Like I'm going to look for, freaking umbrella charm. I don't know.

You know what I mean? Just something random. Right. So it's like, if we want to really have a great charm bar and not be, you know, it's like, it takes a lot of effort and a lot of time to make it that thing, you know, make it

Ashley Donnell: well, and, and if you want to do it right and have your piece last, like I've seen people do charm bar.

I went to the grand opening of my friend's bridal shop and there was a charm bar girl there and she had people pick out the charms. She put them in a bag and had them go sit at a table and put it together themselves. And they all looked like trash. Like I sat down to read, like I like sat down and put my friends together because I was like, no,

Jen Thyrion: no.

But also too, like, as you know, closing a jump ring is that like, rocket science, but if you don't really know how to close it, those are going to just fall off within like, you know, a day or something too. So yeah, like all those things, but because I have to say, and maybe people have experienced starting things in the past, like MLMs come into play in my mind because people think, Oh, that sounds fun.

MLM. If you're really not that passionate about it, how far did it go? You know? Cause I mean, I think maybe most of us have maybe one experience with that because for me, trucker hat, I have no interest. Like I know I will. Not like it. I don't really, you know what I mean? I just, for me, it's all about the jewelry.

So for me, and that, and that translate into why people come back to me because I think they can see my passion and love for it and I get excited about it. Um, yeah, it's like, what excites you about this business and go that way? Right. Like go in that direction. It's been so great chatting with you. Like, I know I could chat with you all day and I want to take your classes at PJX next time.

I feel like I had zero time, so I want to like sit in next time, but I don't know. Anything else you want to leave us with? Where do we find you? Tell us all the things of how we can stop you.

Ashley Donnell: So follow me on my personal Instagram. It's Ashley L Donnell with two N's and two L's. That's where I post most of my business coaching, any of my tips, all of that sort of thing.

Definitely join us in the Original Permanent Jewelry Facebook group. And then, if you're interested in the association. It's permanentjewelryassociation. org.

Jen Thyrion: Perfect. I'm definitely going to be a member. Thank you so much for your time today. I know you're a busy woman, so thank you so much.

Ashley Donnell: Thank you for having me.

Hope to chat with you again soon. Okay.

Jen Thyrion: Bye. Bye. Well, how do you feel? I hope you found value in today's episode and you walk away feeling inspired. I would love to hear from you. Let's link up. You can find me on Instagram at goldielinkssociety. You can find out more about our permanent jewelry membership at goldielinksociety.

com Our handmade permanent jewelry supplies of connectors chain and more at goldielinksupplies. com Okay, I will see you next time. Have a golden day