004: To Waiver Or Not To Waiver…Making Legal Fun!

Jen: Hey there, I'm Jen Thyrion, and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a former nine to fiver that dove into entrepreneurship eight years ago with zero business experience. I'm a wife, mama of two young girls, boutique owner, jewelry designer, and now the proud owner and coach leading GoldieLinks Permanent Jewelry.

I have a passion to empower fellow business babes. This podcast is made to equip you with everything you need to succeed from actionable marketing steps to digging deep on your mindset. I know firsthand the heart, hard work, and let's be real at times of struggle that makes up this amazing journey. You want to know what has enabled me to shine the brightest coaching plus community here at GoldieLinks.

We share openly educate and lift each other up. Expect to get linked with fellow PJ owners that will do just that sprinkled with plenty of fun along the way. Competition is an old school thought and connection is the way get ready to feel inspired. Welcome to the GoldieLinks podcast.

Jen: Hey, Alyssa. Oh wait, is it frozen? Oh, okay. Now I'm here. I'm here. It was frozen for a second. Okay. I'm so excited you're here with us today. This is Alyssa from LegalDoer. And she is going to tell us all the things I never want to deal with. But first of all, tell us about yourself. I want to hear all about how you started, why you want to be a lawyer, how you are, where you are in your entrepreneur journey.

Alyssa: Thank you so much for having me. First and foremost, it's been wonderful. Just getting to know you and thank you for giving me this platform and opportunity to speak with you today.

So a little bit about me. So I hate telling the story because it's so personal, but I think it's so important to share because it sheds light onto why legal so important. But a little over a year ago, my dad was in a terrible car accident. And while he was in the hospital, his trusted employees went and basically poached all of his clients,

right? So his 40 year business. Was completely destroyed and taken out from under him

and did not have contracts in place to

Jen: What did he do? Do you mind me asking? What was his business? What did he do?

Alyssa: he had a pool business. Yeah. So for like over 40 years now, very established accounts clients that were very obviously loyal to my father, but they didn't hear from him because he was in the hospital. And they told the clients that my dad had retired. So the story made sense.

Like they were totally bamboozled the clients. At that point, the accounts had already been transferred and completely poached. Anyway, it is what it is, but even as his attorney daughter, I didn't realize that my dad didn't have these legal things in place.

And had we had the proper contracts in place, we could have done something about it.

But literally, There was nothing I could do, and it was in that moment that I had a lot of friends with the pandemic starting their online businesses, and I was just like, sick to my stomach that like me as a lawyer, because it's so expensive to go to a law firm, right? 515 hour. I couldn't even afford me.

Jen: Yes. You're right.

Alyssa: oh, my God. They're starting this business. I was like, I do not want this legal nightmare. To happen to my friends and family again,

and I need to make the law more accessible, right?

To like, just on my business owners and creative. So that's really what got me started. And it's been a passion project of mine.

I love legal. I know I'm weird when it comes to that, but

a

Jen: No, that's it.

Alyssa: you

Jen: You are

Alyssa: all day to sit here and negotiate contracts

and write contract terms. Basically, that's how I got started

and I've been growing ever since just wherever the need arises to really make it a point that, people get their legal in place.

And I understand you all got started in these, a lot of us got started in these businesses besides me to be creatives and

To hone in on what you liked. And I think you even told me this. I'm like, I hear this all the time. You're like. I do not want to deal with the legal, the bookkeeping, the accounting, the insurance, all that

stuff is so daunting.

And it's just

Please take it off my plate. But once you get it done, it really does give you that peace of mind. And it really helps you with your business operations.

And you're just able to really go back to focusing on why you got into business.

Jen: It's almost like you can start a business without doing it, but until something like that happens, like with your father, then you're like, Oh my gosh, like I should have had this in place. And then then there goes your business. So it's obviously so important to set up the bones, like of your business with these things.

And like you said, I feel too, most people that go into business, like permanent jewelry is this sounds like fun. We love jewelry. We're creatives. Yeah. Like you're not. Thinking about all the other stuff. You're just thinking about this stuff you have to do to grow your business. And that doesn't really come into mind, even though it's super necessary.

And like you said, it's it's intimidating, to go to who do you contact? That's how I feel. And that's why it's amazing. You have, so we'll talk about this, but you have so many amazing. Like templates and things that people can use that for, small businesses and online business. Which is amazing and makes it easy.

And then also your Instagram, I was just like devouring it the last couple of days. And you literally have a post that I was laughing so hard because also we were talking about this. You have two young children, right? So we were talking about that.

Alyssa: five and two

Jen: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh yeah. Okay. So you have a two year old.

Okay. I have a three and a five year old, so I can

Alyssa: Oh

Jen: And but you're, there's one reel that's hilarious. It's like being a creator or an online entrepreneur is knowing that you need solid contracts and legal protection to safeguard your business. But also you would rather sing baby shark on repeat for a year, then deal with the legal stuff.

And I'm like, everyone that has young kids obviously can relate because baby shark on end is like, you want to like. Literally bang your head against the wall, but you'd rather do that than deal with legal stuff.

Alyssa: I get it. Yes. I get it. It's Oh, it's like,

where do we start? It's

Jen: And like we were talking before, which most people, a lot of people are doing this are in this boat of being moms as well. And again, it's one more thing that you have to worry about and having your own business. You have to wear so many hats and do all the things. So let's dive in.

What is the first thing that you need to do when you decide I want to have a permanent jewelry business? What do you need to do?

Alyssa: okay. So first and foremost, what kind of business entity are you going to form?

Are you going to go into business as a sole proprietorship, which is just you as an individual doing business, or are you going to set up a limited liability company and that's going to be your first order of business now, I would say. It's really obviously my lawyer response will be your 1st thing is get your LLC, but I know that's not necessarily a realistic. Response, so I would say, if you're just trying to decide between a sole proprietorship or an LLC, think about whether you want to have that personal liability protection. So as a sole prop, the businesses, you, you are the business, there's no separation.

If you're an LLC, then it's technically a separate entity.

So you're the managing member of the LLC. So the business obligations, the business debts, if you ever get sued for anything, and there's a judgment, if you are operating your LLC correctly, and you're not If Mingling funds or commingling funds, you have your operating agreement in place and everything is set up properly, then your LLC is the one that's getting sued, not you personally.

So your home, your car, all that stuff is not on the hook because you set everything up correctly and you are separate and distinct now that's all well and good. And you're like, okay, I do want that personal liability protection, but does it make sense for me at this moment when I'm just starting out? Do I want. To invest in that extra step, right? Because it's an extra step. I would say, ask yourself these 5 things. 1, what is the cost to start and operate an LLC in your state? Some states. Are like 50 to file and get an LLC. It's

not cost prohibitive, right?

But in places like here in California, it's 70 or 70 or 90 to file.

And then it's 800 for a franchise tax every single year. That

Jen: Oh, wow.

Alyssa: sense to you.

So figure out what those filing requirements, the mandatory annual reporting requirements, any filing fees, along with does my state have minimum annual tax or franchise tax requirements? So how much is it cost me

to set up this LLC?

2nd, do you want to claim your business name? Do you want to own that name on the state level? Obviously for you don't own it federally unless you file a trademark, but do you want to prevent others from owning it in your state? The 3rd 1 is how much personal assets. assets. do you have, or do you plan on having?

Because if you're broke, there's not much to protect to be completely honest, you're what we call judgment proof. Because if anyone were to bring a judgment against you, you can't milk a dry. Cow, so they

Jen: Sure. Sure.

Alyssa: The next 1 is. How much money are you going to earn under your LLC? So there's a certain tax election.

I'm sure everyone has heard it before. It's called an S corp tax election. It's actually Still an LLC just for tax purposes. You are an S corp. So when you get to make around 000 net profits,

that's when you're going to want to potentially talk to your CPA or accountant about electing an S corp. To save money on taxes. So that's when you definitely have to have that LLC in place to be able to become the S corp for tax purposes. And then the last but not least to ask yourself is what are the legal risks in my niche or industry? Like, how lawsuit prone are people in what it is that I'm doing?

And based on those. Figure out if it makes sense for you to get that LLC or to keep operating as a sole prop.

Jen: Okay. And do you know of anywhere where they have a list of a state by state of how much it is? And do you know of anything like that off

Alyssa: my gosh.

Jen: Okay. It's funny. Okay. So I want to ask you first because I did find something and I will check the legitimacy of it, but I'm going to post a link in the show notes because I did find a great where it was state by state and told you the fee of every LLC and gave you some guidelines, which I think is amazing.

So I'm just gonna make sure that they keep it current because I know that stuff can change. But that's, it was such a great resource I found cause but so sole proprietor, what is compared to LLC? Is there a fee to be a sole proprietor or no? Cause you're just on your, you're not,

Alyssa: yeah, there's nothing that you're filing. There's no paperwork. Like

Jen: there is no paperwork.

Alyssa: no, not yeah, to be yourself. There's nothing that

Jen: could not, you don't have to file anything

Alyssa: declare. You basically, for tax purposes, you declare, I have the intention of making money. And now I'm a business,

Jen: interesting. Okay. But when you do it that way, can you still file for a seller's permit and things like that? No. Or do you need.

Alyssa: Okay, this is a

great question. Because you don't have to file anything to form yourself as a sole prop, that doesn't mean you don't have paperwork.

Okay,

Jen: Okay.

Alyssa: like the 2nd step is regardless of you form a sole prop or sole proprietorship as you as the individual,

or if you go ahead and form that LLC, you're still going to need to file for what you called your resale or your seller's permit to collect and remit sales tax.

You also need to look into your general business licensing requirements and any local legal. Compliance and you are going to need to file for those, whether you're an LLC or whether you're a sole prop.

Jen: Okay. So you can still, of course, yeah, remit sales tax, collect sales tax, get a, cause we were talking about this. You said seller's permit. I always call it a resale tax license. I know over here in Colorado, whether or not they're named different things in different States. But that's obviously how I'm buying wholesale.

What I use to file my sales tax. So you can do that regardless if you, however you structure your business.

Alyssa: In fact, You have to.

yes, you have to yeah,

Jen: Okay. And then when, also EIN, where does that fit in? So you also, everyone has to get an EIN, correct?

Alyssa: so It's optional if you are a sole prop.

It's definitely would do that as an LLC

Where because then you don't it's basically your business's social security number

So as an LLC, you do need to get that federal again, because then it attaches to you for tax purposes

because it's a different entity than you.

It needs its own social security number. As an LLC, you do need to get that federal. Yeah, as a sole prop, you don't technically need it unless you're hiring employees there. There's other little requirements in there, but from a general standpoint no, you don't have to get it. If you want to hide your social security number, say, because you have. W, 9 or other tax forms that you want, you can apply for that federal number so that you can so that you can show that instead of your social. So it's an optional for.

A lot of general purposes, and before we get more into that,

I need to put in my lovely legal disclaimer that although I am a lawyer, this is all being provided for general and informational purposes.

Only, because obviously when it comes to, your state, your local requirements and your situation personally, it's best to really seek out a lawyer or get that legal advice to your situation. Specifically, but yeah, this is all more like general generalizations.

Jen: Okay. And then I'm just going to backtrack really quick when you said LLC and if it's structured correctly, where you have all the correct paperwork, you're literally making me think, I'm like, oh my gosh, do I? I want to, I know we don't maybe cover that right now, but I know you have a great bundle that's the things you need in place when you're, it's more geared towards online business.

But again, like you said, even a permanent jewelry business, they can go through and make sure and go through all these steps as we're talking about. Do you cover that? Yeah. And that's bundle, like all the paper, everything you

Alyssa: oh, in the mini

Jen: mini course.

Alyssa: Yes.

I go over. It's like a roadmap of here's module 1 of pick your LLC. Yes. I go over all of this. And although it is geared more towards online businesses and like digital products. So

instead of oh, this is optional for sales tax, because you're a physical business, it'd be like, oh, I have to get that.

Yes, it definitely covers that. And all of the legal, because obviously there's so much, right?

Jen: Yes. There's so much. And that's why I actually want to ask a question about tax, which we were talking about that. Cause it's is this a lawyer question or is this a CPA question? But when it comes to actually cause dealing a lot with online digital products what exactly cause we, as we know, services don't have to be taxed.

Okay.

Alyssa: Ones, but yes, for the most part.

Jen: But of course we're selling a product with a service. Like we're doing permanent jewelry. They're obviously buying a chain. Okay. So it does have to be taxed, correct?

Alyssa: Yes.

So yes. So that's why I, the online courses, basically, that would be literally like the only major difference

is that sales tax is sometimes optional for certain states. But when it comes to physical, tangible goods, those are

always going to be taxed.

Always going to need to if your state obviously has sales tax

and it's not even just like state.

It's like state, county and city.

Jen: Oh my gosh. I know. It's so fun. Okay. And then, okay, let's move on to waivers because I feel like this is also a question a lot that I see if they, if people really need a waiver. I know we can meet, when I reached out to you originally, I was like, because we did even some research on. But on our own, because we actually, I have not, I might be honest, I have not had any waivers yet.

So we're looking to implement them, but it was a discussion where it seems to be like you don't need a waiver if you have the correct insurance and you have again, an LLC, because, but that protects you. So cover that, like, why do you need a waiver and what. What if, okay, yeah let's start there.

If do you feel you need a waiver?

Alyssa: Yes, 100%.

Jen: Okay.

Alyssa: Yes.

Jen: So we'll say something happens, say the machine malfunctions and you, heaven forbid, burn someone, which I know is so not, so uncommon. I don't even know if it's even happened, but let's say it happens, or someone gets injured in your, you have a brick and mortar and someone gets injured and you don't have a waiver.

But you do have insurance and LLC. So what happens there? Say they were to sue you or something or,

Alyssa: So it's it's like your own little legal bundle, right? So I would look in it as a permanent jewelry jeweler. I would look at it like a stool. And so you need 3 legs. To sit on that comfortably with true legal peace of mind to be able to

sit on that school. You need all 3 and all 3 is going to be your business insurance.

It's going to be your LLC and it's going to be your waiver. And they're all going to function slightly differently. And they're going to. Save your booty

so much depending on the situation. And you're, we're not fortune tellers, right? Like we can't like, okay, this X and X situation, like you want to protect yourself against all of those things.

So someone comes in and there's a welding accident. You accidentally burn the customer. Is that waiver going to protect you? It depends. Is your LLC going to protect you? It depends.

Is insurance going to cover it? It depends. But wouldn't you want, wouldn't you want all three?

So with the waiver, if you say that you were negligent. Okay. So you you weren't following like the standard practices of what a typical jeweler should do. And that is why you burn to the customer. That waiver is not going to help you because it's not going to protect you against your own, either your intentional misdeeds or because you, not just an accident, but an accident that you could have foresaw and you didn't prevent against.

Waiver is not going to help you.

If, on the other hand, there was a problem with the jewelry that wasn't, there was a problem with actual material or say the customer themselves unexpectedly moved and got burned.

Now the waiver is going to protect you. And what I mean by protection is, it's going to give you your best possible defense in the case of a lawsuit or better yet, before you even get to that lawsuit, say like the customer's thing, they're like, Oh my gosh, you just burnt me. And now they're coming at you saying you need to pay my medical bills. And you're like, I'm so sorry. First of all, I'm so sorry this happened, but that's why we had the waiver in place.

And you agreed that, if something happened, like you moved. That I wouldn't be liable for that. Although I'm like,

super sorry that this happened you don't have a legal claim and maybe they'll walk away at that point, or you can settle, and you can have a mediator be like, you have no legal case.

It's just, there's so many different factors to consider, but

for me, that's why I say absolutely. Yes,

Jen: Yeah. There's no, yeah, exactly. There's no downside to covering yourself in every way you can, right? Just in case, cause hopefully these things are. Few and far between. But of course, when they happen, they can be super devastating, right? So even if you say you, it's like taking off one of those legs.

Like I was thinking of it like, okay, say you have a waiver and an LLC that's covers you more, I guess in your business, but you don't have insurance. So it's

Alyssa: then how yeah, exactly. So the insurance is going to be the one that helps you pay for it, right?

And it depends on the exclusions. Again, insurance isn't the whole 100%. There's pros and cons to that one too,

Maybe they have exclusions to it. Maybe they exclude your negligence.

Maybe they exclude those the things that the waiver would have covered, right? Or say, for instance so I'm losing my train of thought.

Jen: You're fine. You're fine.

Alyssa: what was it? Oh, just so that they're not perfect. So usually with all 3, you can just cover yourself from those unexpected things

because you never want to be made the example.

Jen: I know it's true. And then I even thinking I don't know, knock on wood, I've never been in court or like I brought to court, but I was like, say you did, obviously doesn't it make you also just seem I don't want to say may you make you be legit, but if you went there and saying Hey, I have this waiver, I have insurance and I have this, like I have all these things in place and this happened rather than just setting up and not having anything in place.

And then of course it looks like you're very. I got, I want to use the word unprofessional, but just not, you're not a legit business or something.

Alyssa: More like amateur.

And really it really lifts you up to be like, look, I have all my bases covered and don't mess with me.

Jen: And also depending, you want to think the best of people, but obviously there are people out there that will jump right to wanting to do something legally or something, that, that exists. I'm sure. I'm sure you've.

Alyssa: Actually here in America. Yes.

Jen: And but if they know that you have, they signed a waiver, but if they see they they didn't, they know they have maybe an opportunity, open opportunity to be like I didn't sign anything.

So it's just almost like the mindset of the customer too. If they walk away and something happened, they're like, Oh I actually signed this. But if I didn't, anyway, it doesn't, it leaves opportunities to not

Alyssa: And I think that's yes. 100 percent because I've even had that in myself because, I'm trustworthy. I have integrity. I, I'm like, I don't think of those things. And then I've recently had that same thing where a customer took advantage of 1 of the things that I was like. Dang, like I didn't even realize that they could take advantage of my integrity, and it's like

they can use that stuff against you because you're like, oh I'm trusting.

And it's exactly what we said. You don't know who you're dealing with and it's better to just cover all the bases and it's simple enough. I know that's the extra paperwork. It's getting their signature on it and their date the date of it, but there are electronic apps and there's our electronic services, just like even when you go to the gym or you take your kids to the jumpy or

Jen: Yes. Yes.

Alyssa: you have the little iPad, you have the little tablet, you have the POS, like you can have it on there. Or it's here's your liability. Wait, as long as they can scroll through that bad boy and they have to click, I accept to it. And they have their electronic signature. You're good. You don't have to make it into a long drawn out thing.

Jen: And if you do need a signature and a date for it to be legally binding, is that right? Okay. I just want to put that out there, but we already spoke prior to doing this, that we're, we Alyssa is going to put together an amazing waiver template specifically for permanent jewelers. So that, that can be purchased and then it's just a template that they can plug in, right?

Can they edit that like to what

Alyssa: they wouldn't even need to, they wouldn't even need to,

they would literally put in their business name, make it super easy. Let's not make

this complicated.

Jen: And then when we do have that waiver, say they purchase your template, how, what do you think the best way is people probably don't want a bunch of like paper, actual paper. So would they, how would they be able to utilize that maybe digitally?

Like how would they use that?

Alyssa: I would get 1 of those managing services. Through the apps or the document services where it is a simple just. Electronic document that you scroll down like I accept and then they electronically sign it and then it's

stored for that customer either. It's at the point of checkout.

So they're standing there. They're getting you getting ready to give you their credit card or the cash and they're like, before you make this purchase, please click and read through this disclaimer. You have those little.

Those little screens that you can have, or you can bring on a tablet or your phone, be simple or it can just be on a piece of paper, but I know that can be really tedious to keep track of.

Jen: I know. And it's one of those things. We looked into some waiver apps and whatnot. And I know there's a lot of people talk about so we'll put that in the show notes too. And just our comparison, because I know there's some that are free and then over a certain amount of waivers you do a month it's paid and so there are, Google forms might be a good one.

I, again, I'm not too schooled in this, but I think that there are a lot of options like you said. And even if you wanted to make it technically. Non digital and free. You could just print them out, and have them sign it right and just file it away. But

Alyssa: it. Yeah, or scan it and be like, okay, scan and then name

done.

Jen: yeah, true. Okay, great. Okay. So that's awesome. So with waivers, when does and then I'm going to move on to contracts. So granted, I don't I think when anyone would need a contract, right? Is it obviously when they have more of a brick and mortar, maybe they have employees, right? When do you need a contract in place?

Alyssa: Okay, so anytime you're exchanging your services, or you're getting paid, you want to have a contract in place and mainly it's just so that both parties are on the same page.

Me personally, I'm like, contracts are so good at saying okay, where are we? Are we on the same page? And also you're able to implement business boundaries.

Hey, this is what we agreed to. You can always blame it on the contract and point and

say, Hey, perfect. It's the contract. This is

it. So obviously you brought up employees. You definitely need to have an employee agreement. I don't care if it's at will. You want to have that there. You also, especially if you're hiring independent contractors, you're going to want to have something there.

So anytime you're exchanging something, it's just, it's not even necessarily the legality of it, but more of what is our relationship? What's the scope of our relationship? And what am I paying you for?

And that way there's not this miscommunication or bad blood down the line.

Jen: And it sounds like a weird, but this has popped my head. Can you put anything in a contract?

Alyssa: No, not necessarily.

Jen: If so, they sign on it. Can you literally put I'm just trying to think of something like so silly, but I was like, what, I don't know. What, I don't, what what can you technically put in a contract?

Alyssa: So so the law loves contracts, the law likes when two parties come together and

there's a meeting of the minds and they're like, Hey, do you agree to this? Heck yeah. Hey, do you agree to this? Heck yeah. And you both sign it and date it and it's done. The law loves that

because that's partnership.

That's working together. What they don't like is one sided contracts and when they become what the coin termed is unconscionable. It's like you can't force someone to do certain things. Or if you are like, say you're one party and you have a lot of legal sway and the other person doesn't. There are certain things and it can get really technical.

But for the most part, as long as there's offer, acceptance, and some sort of consideration payment. Bartering time in exchange for something of value, you have a contract

and it's legally binding on both of you.

Jen: Okay. That's awesome. Yeah.

Alyssa: I know like with online templates and generic contracts, that's, I think for me, the scariest part, because anyone can act like a lawyer. They can be a Google lawyer, and I know it's easy to do. But it's also, from my standpoint, makes me very nervous for people because. Sometimes you don't know what you're signing and you might be taking on legal responsibility and obligations that you aren't aware of. So I always completely read through a contract before you sign it because there is no, Oh, I didn't know that was in their defense or they didn't tell me about that.

You, once you sign on that dotted line I would always 100 percent ask questions and if you don't understand anything, don't sign it

because you may be taking on something that you don't even realize.

Jen: Okay. I want to ask a question about it was having to do with contracts. See that I always do this. There's one point part where I lose my train of thought.

Alyssa: I don't

Jen: Okay, hold on. Let me gather my thoughts. Contracts. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, I'm going to go back to waivers. I want to talk about in here.

I'll start it again here in a second. I want to go back to talking about like the whole children's thing with the waivers. Okay, and minors. Okay. Okay, going back to the waivers, there also has been a lot of discussion and I sent you some links of what I've seen in the permanent jewelry groups and about the federal like regulations when it comes to children 12 and under, the lead content of jewelry.

At first when I read that, I thought there was a federal regulation against permanent jewelry on children, which apparently from what I see, there's not, it's more or less the content of the metal. So I think a lot of people are again, veering away then from doing and not wanting to deal with it and not wanting to do, put permanent jewelry at all on 12 and under.

Cause then that whole conversation came up what can we do? Clasps? It has nothing to do with the permanent side. It literally is just the content of the metal, right? So when I sent you those links and you looked over it, what was your opinion about again, I guess this whole subject when it comes to, because there was something about getting a certification and, even though we're buying this, these chains, we see what the company is telling us it's made out of, whether it's gold fill, sterling silver, pure gold, which is most of what we're dealing with.

And we see there's no lead. They're telling us there's no lead. So say something were to come back where a child was affected by. A piece of jewelry that were being led in there. What happens there? What would protect you?

Alyssa: So at that point, I would close your business down and flee the country. Just kidding.

Jen: Okay.

Alyssa: just kidding. I'm just

Jen: I'm like, the end, bye.

Alyssa: Oh, my gosh. Okay. Yes, I get it. When it comes to children, the law protects the innocent, right? The law protects kids. So I understand from your perspective, it's okay, this is scary, right?

Anytime you are welding jewelry or putting jewelry on a miner, you're definitely This is where the weaver comes in because Children under the age of 18, and I say children because I know when you're like 17 or 18, when you're 17, you don't feel like a minor, but

when you're under 18, at least here in America, that's the age of majority and you technically cannot give birth. True consent, right? And that's what the whole informed consent waiver is all about. And so with the waivers really more important when it comes to putting jewelry on minors, you definitely want to have that waiver. And the kid isn't the 1 that signs it. It's the parent as the

parent or legal guardian that you need to get their permission.

And I know just in reality, you're like, okay, but they're 17, their parent weren't there. Then I'm going to put that in your discretion, right? I'm

going to throw it back on you and say, you, you do you boo. You figure that out. I don't know. But if. I'm going to draw a line and say, if you're dealing with 13 or 14 year old and under. I would not I would definitely have that waiver from, with a minor and their parent waiver. So

then back through this whole, is there a federal law? What the heck? So I saw it. It's the consumer products, safety improvement act and essentially what it's saying is that there are these certain standards for children's products. Now, I hone in on the fact that you're a permanent jeweler, like you are not selling these specifically to children. These are not children's products. So to me, that's already hey, this doesn't apply to you. But then you're like, okay, but I'm still nervous.

And I was like, okay, but also this is a requirement for manufacturers and importers. You're not that. This is for them to certify their compliance with this whole lead standard. It's for them to provide you as the jeweler with that lead certificate. It's for, it's on them. It's their duty to tell you as a jeweler, Hey, this is pure gold. This is quality metal. Here's the purity and here's the lead content.

And so that's what I guess your duty as a jeweler is to talk to and find credible. Manufacturers and importers of your jewelry and say, show me that certificate. Show me the purity test. Show me that what you're saying. I'm buying is what it is. And then you have fulfilled your legal duty to verify that now, when you turn around and sell that piece of jewelry, whether. To an adult or whether to an, whether it's a child, that law does not require you to send out individual certificates for that piece of jewelry. That's it's not for you

if that makes sense.

Jen: Yes. So when it comes to, I guess my mind just went to, I know we're doing a lot of in person, but even when it, cause I mentioned when we were talking about this, about people that sell like bracelets, for instance, clasped bracelets, beaded bracelets to children on Etsy, or any online store. So because are they, is there, I wouldn't say they sign a waiver, but is there something online or even like through Etsy, they're not.

There's nothing that they're signing saying Hey, I agree to this. So how does that work? If you have an, if you say,

Alyssa: Maybe there's disclaimers, right? So like at

checkout, there's a disclaimer.

But you can't legally disclaim or put away your right under the law, if there is an actual standard that says Hey, if you're selling children's goods, if you're showing, if you're selling children's jewelry, you need to verify that what you're selling and what you're marketing out there doesn't have X, Y, Z, then there's no really way there's no way around that, but that's not what this law is saying.

So as long as you, as the jeweler are. Looking back at the manufacturer, whoever you're getting the jewelry from, and you're like, just show me that this quality is the quality, then you're good.

Jen: Okay. So say we didn't take that step. Say that there was a child that came and, for whatever reason we, but we did purchase this, chain or whatever. That does stated like what the contents were like in the description, let's say, but we didn't reach out to them specifically saying Hey, jeweler, we need this certificate.

Are we then at fault of some because we didn't ask for that certificate or are we like, or are we just obviously just purchasing that chain? It was stated what was in, what would the materials were? And that's all we needed, right? We didn't, do we need to go a step further? Okay.

Alyssa: My legal response would be, it depends. I would obviously tell you that you should take that extra step. You should verify that what you're getting is a quality.

Honestly, there's that's just too much of a variable because it comes back to. Not just being a child, but say, there's an allergic reaction or there's something else going on there.

That's where your waiver comes in.

Jen: That's when the waiver comes in. Yeah, for sure.

Alyssa: your insurance comes in to then pay for a cost to litigate the case or pay for the cost of the judgment. But there's too many what ifs there to really give you a a definitive answer to that.

Jen: Yes. Because you're right. The waiver, it would say along the lines you're agreeing to this if you do get a reaction. Basically, that's, again, not our, not our responsibility, right? So that's something they're signing off on.

Alyssa: and then eventually say, you did get a piece of jewelry that was told to you. The manufacturer or the importer told you it was X, Y, and Z, and it didn't have lead in it. You can obviously, that would be your defense, right? If I were your lawyer, I'd be like she didn't know this is what she was told.

That was a intentional misrepresentation on their part. And then we would counter sue them. So there's,

there would just, I would just be like a giant triangle thing where they're suing you and now

you're suing them. And there's

one big happy family for a couple of years. Yeah, no

Jen: Oh, my gosh. Okay. Good to know. I feel like when we, again, anyone who sees anything, they want to avoid And whatever you feel comfortable with, I think what it comes down to, too, I do it by case basis, too. If I get children, I definitely talk to the parent about, and just feel it out, really, and go with my gut when it comes to something like that.

But again, dealing with a different, even going forward, having a waiver, which will make me feel even better, knowing

Alyssa: Yeah. Does it give you peace of mind? Yeah. And don't just

do it if you're like, Oh, I'm just, does that help you?

Yes.

For sure. Otherwise you're not going to do it.

Jen: Because I've had people actually come with their child and again, and this is, I typically don't do, try to do anyone really three or four under, honestly, at that point, but I have had people come to me that actually were upset by, they went to another permanent jeweler and they wouldn't do it.

put it on their child and they were like mad about it. You know what I mean? So it's but again, we're all trying to do what's right for us, obviously. And you got to respect, of course, you know what they feel is right. But it's just, it's again it's this gray area where people are like can we, or can we not, and no one wants to, no one wants to be in any legal trouble.

And no one wants to hurt anybody. Yeah.

Alyssa: No, it's totally true. And then, especially because it's permanent jury, you have to decide at that point from your more of a moral ethical standpoint,

right? So it's not even necessarily like a legal thing, but then like you decide whether you're okay with that or not. Because the last thing you want to do is then to resent your customers or to resent and be like, to then be thinking about that. You don't want it to weigh on your energy and on your mind,

but then maybe in that kind of situation, you're like, okay I will end up doing it. But only if you sign this saying that, that I don't recommend this, but that I'm willing to do it as long as you, agree to anything happen.

Jen: But honestly, something to be aware of, and one last thing we'll talk about with the children that are underage is could there, as permanent jewelry, of course, is somewhat new, right? So as it rolls out, is there, there's a possibility there could be maybe a federal regulation or a state by state, right?

Could there be a state regulation when it comes to permanent jewelry of you can, no, no child under this age can get it, there, that can happen, Right.

Alyssa: Oh, for sure. Yeah, then we would have a state by state, even just even with the lead, right? There's

different things. California has its own regulations that imposes

on children's jewelry. But yes, it can definitely be state by state. And we just, we don't currently have that yet.

So

Jen: So it's something to just keep

Alyssa: so new.

Yeah,

Jen: Something to stay aware of, and what would be the easiest way to know if something did pop up about that? Like a Google alert or something? What if something popped up and you weren't aware of it?

Alyssa: there would need to be a lawsuit, right? I feel like there would need to be like a representative or someone who something

terrible happened to and

I'm like, but if they're going to allow piercings, then I don't see why they wouldn't allow.

Jen: I know. Yes. And I think that's a problem too. I think it's so new that when people hear the word permanent jewelry, they go right to the fact of you're embedding it in their skin. So I think

Alyssa: that's what they think. Yes, they

think that it's like a permanent piercing.

Jen: Okay. Because yeah, you're right. Really with so many things I was asking about that too, if you're aware of tattooing under age or, the piercing, as far as I know yeah, there's no regulation.

Alyssa: Yeah.

Jen: Yeah. It's here. It's also.

Alyssa: and are

you putting the child in danger, right? So it's eventually that's through the parent and the child's relationship, and whether someone steps in to protect the child from the

parent, Right.

Jen: Yeah, because I tried getting a tattoo when I was 17

Alyssa: Really?

Jen: and and I could not, my friends were 18 and they could, thankfully I didn't because now it's funny okay, you think back

Alyssa: have gotten?

Jen: what, have you, of course, like a butterfly, like tramp stamp or something. So

Alyssa: it would have been so good

now.

Jen: infamous low back tattoo, right?

So happy it didn't happen really, but at the time I was so disappointed because again, they would have done it if they had a parent there to consent, right? So it brings me back to that moment. So anyway, moving on.

Alyssa: but then you're 17, right? So it goes

back to that whole what are they willing to do,

Right.

But see, if they put that on you, your parents, oh man, they could have brought that shop down.

Jen: True.

Alyssa: Because that's actually permanent.

Jen: Yes, exactly.

Alyssa: Not now. I guess you can

Jen: I know, right? But it's a process. Yes, exactly. Let's talk really quick about trademarks. When would you want, because again, like I like going back to when you mentioned LLC that stuck out to me. So if you do have an LLC with your business name in your state, you're protected against anyone else having that name in your state.

Is that correct?

Alyssa: No, not tech. No,

you're not protected from that. You just are now claiming it like on the state level. So it's

No one else can file for that name. As an LLC or corporation,

Jen: Okay, but they can still technically use that name. Like they, there's no legal reason they couldn't

Alyssa: put a lot of people on notice that you own it. The only way to really put everybody on notice and to really claim true ownership is through a trademark. Now,

obviously, trademark is more complex. We were first to file or sorry, opposite of that. We are a first to use not first to file federal nation.

So

what happens with that is even if. If you are putting a name out there and you're making money, you technically at that moment, have a claim for federal trademark protection, but does anybody else know that if you're not, if you're not easily found, if people don't, you don't have a giant. Online presence, and no one knows about it, then someone can swoop in, file a federal trademark, and unless you were watching the USPTO. gov website, they may swoop in and own that name before you federally,

unless you filed an opposition, and unless now you, you sue them saying, hey, I actually used it first, which has happened in the

Jen: Okay.

Alyssa: but then that's a lawsuit, right?

Jen: Yeah. Okay.

Alyssa: So if you do love your name, I always say this. Okay. My first lawyer thing, again, if I put my lawyer hat on, it's should I file a trademark? I'm like, yes. The second you love your name. And the second you're like, I'm making money and I'm using it in commerce.

File that federal trademark. Is it realistic?

No. So what do we ask? We ask ourselves, do I love my name? Am I going to be using it forever? If someone else were to file a trademark and taking my name, would I be devastated? That's how I felt about legal doer. I thought it

was, I thought it was the stupidest name and I loved it. And I was like, I'm a doer that does like, it was just, it's just that was me.

And I'm like, I would be devastated if someone took that. I found it right away, but I'm able to file it myself. So it's can you, do you have the money to invest in a lawyer to do it? I definitely 110 percent like would not say to file it yourself. The federal trademark application is very complex

and about 50 to 80 percent of applications are rejected, which means you have to go through the whole thing and your fees are not refunded.

Jen: Why would it be rejected? Maybe because you didn't do something correctly, when you do it yourself? Is that what you mean? Okay.

Alyssa: Or the name wasn't good enough. There are certain

requirements you have to have certain name requirements. It can't be general. It can't be descriptive there. There's a lot of. It's complex

you have to 1st, have a trademark worthy name.

So it has to be trademarkable and then the application is confusing.

So you've got to pick the correct class because trademarks are filed in little buckets. If you go to target and you look around and it's different departments. If you think of Dove,

you're like, what do you think of first? Do you think of the candy bar? Or do you think

Soap? And how are they both allowed to legally exist?

That's because they're in different departments.

So if you walk into Target, you're not getting confused about buying Dove soap when you want a Dove chocolate. You know exactly where to go

Jen: true. Okay.

Alyssa: where to go. So

that's what the classes are. So it's like being able to figure out where to put it.

And obviously that's a generalization. If it's chocolate, if it's food, what department to put it in or what class

to put it in. But picking those classes and filing in those classes gets a little bit complex. So that's just where it goes. Yeah.

Jen: let's real quick say you trademark your name, right? And then you, someone else is using it. You find them and you serve like a cease and desist, which I think is what you do. Correct. If that were to happen, okay. And say they just continue, they ignore it and continue to use the name. You would have to obviously take the steps and what would you do at that point?

Alyssa: so it depends on where they're using it. If it's you can do a lot of, you can do a lot of things. Yes, a cease and desist. Also, they really should stop because when there is a trademark violation, there are statutory damages. It, I want to say behooves you, but that's a terrible word.

And other words, it's in your best interest

to go ahead and go after them because you're going to get your attorney's fees paid for, you're going to get your, the cost of the litigation paid for, and you're going to get your damages because it's all statutorily driven.

Jen: Oh, got it. Okay.

Alyssa: And you obviously have to prove some of the damages, but it's more in your benefit to go after them.

So yeah, cease and desist. You can also potentially do some like takedown requests where you force like the website owner or the website host or the social media platform to deal with it on your behalf and then obviously, yeah, we'll lawsuit at the end of the day,

because you do lose your trademark if you don't enforce it.

Jen: Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. You could lose it if you don't enforce it.

Alyssa: Yeah. It makes your claim weaker.

Jen: Okay. Good to know. All right.

Alyssa: As Goldilinks, but you're letting a bunch of other people operate under your name, then the law is then why are we protecting it for you?

If you're just going to let everybody else use your name and you're not franchising it, you're not claiming it. You're not giving permission.

Everybody's just stole it and you don't care. Then why are we protecting you?

Jen: True. Yeah. What's the point? Yeah. Interesting. Okay. See, so many things I don't know. It's just so many things and you know what,

Alyssa: I'm like, some people like come to me and they're like, they're crying because they're like. Oh my God, there's so much. I don't know. I'm like, why would you know this stuff? Didn't

Jen: know, and that's why I'm just a fan of even you said, if you were to trademark or do anything, like I'm just a fan knowing how, like in my even past business prior to doing this, like how time consuming it can be to like literally if you had to figure out every aspect of business and Dive into every single thing

Alyssa: You'd be

Jen: wouldn't be able to grow your own.

Yeah. And you wouldn't be able to grow your own business because literally by time I researched how to trademark and do everything correctly, I could have been doing something else in my business that really moved the needle forward, like rather than focusing on this that I know is necessary, but it's it doesn't make sense to do on my own, like time is money. So do you offer trademark help? I'm putting on the spot, but do you offer that you do? Okay.

Alyssa: my business is ever expanding, but yes, I do offer that. I also do the starter LLC.

So yes, I have a bunch of DIY do it yourself templates.

Checklists how to run and start your business and that's more of like the D. I. Y. route and I also have the I'll do it for you route where

it's more of the legal services

Jen: And I know you, you've been talking a ton lately, or maybe just what I see current, like lately in your, or the most recent, I should say UGC stuff.

Alyssa: Oh yeah.

Jen: Okay. I know that hasn't like very little to do with maybe with a lot of people listening, but I think that if you are going to sell a product and you're going to scale and you're going to, or you already do that with your permanent jewelry and you sell a product and you do have what is user generated content.

Alyssa: Yes.

Jen: What do you need to protect yourself with that? Because it's very interesting, when you were talking about that, I'm like, I would never think you'd need anything in place for that. What do you

Alyssa: Cause it's all about intellectual property. So something from like your guys standpoint is maybe you're hiring a UGC creator. Maybe

you're hiring that influencer to promote your business, to

promote your product. And it's so from the UGC creative perspective, they are selling you two things. They're selling you their intellectual property rights in the content itself. And they're also selling you their right to publicity, which is their right to monetize or commercialize their image, voice, and likeness. And you

want to, as the business owner,

Jen: Huh.

Alyssa: one want to own the content and the ability to publicize their image, voice, and likeness,

Jen: Ah.

Alyssa: want to license it and say, I'm going to rent. The content and your voice or your image for three months, or I'm going to rent it, AKA license it as a usage, right? For a year, and I'm going to use it organically on my businesses, social media page, or I'm going to put paid advertising behind this content creators thing, or I guess that's more of like influencer.

There's a

Jen: Oh yeah.

Alyssa: and influencer. So with the

UGC creator, handing it to you as the business owner. So as the jeweler, you're going, okay. Content creator or UGC creator, I'm going to pay you to create this content and I'm going to use it on my own social media page organically or as a paid ad through my account or influencer, I'm going to hire you for the content and the

commercialization of your image for you to post it on your account. And then I'm going to be able to put ad spend behind it through your account. But there is so much legal use that comes around that because it's intellectual property. It's ownership. It's how am I going to pay them? It's how many deliverables does that include? So am I getting two TikToks? Am I getting an Instagram story?

Am I getting a feed post? Are they allowed to archive it? So say you pay them 1, 000 and they post for a day and then they archive it. Dang, did you put that in the contract that they weren't allowed to do that? Or what if they all of a sudden the next day go on a binger and you're like, I don't want my brand associated with that influencer now.

Like

they're doing drugs or they're, they're. Super drunk and like inappropriate online. And I, don't want that for my brand. Is there something in that contract to to prevent that from happening? And then do you get your money back or, do you still own it? So there's just a lot of what ifs

to

Jen: Okay. And you do have a lot of and you do have some UGC contract stuff, like templates as well, don't you?

Alyssa: Oh yeah. Yeah.

I have that.

for, I have the, for the actual, for the creator. And then I have it as the business hiring

Jen: business, right?

Alyssa: have different legal considerations.

Jen: Because even if you have a verbal agreement, again, that means nothing, right? Like

Alyssa: If you are in business hiring them, you're so screwed because they could, they own it, right? So just because you paid them for it, you don't own it

unless you get it in writing. Like you have no rights. You basically just like voluntarily gave them money. Like

they could do whatever they want.

Jen: Okay. And then yeah, because even when you said that, it's like, Oh, say I got a UGC, like a review or something really cool. And I wanted to boost the post, but I didn't. And I want to make it an ad, like you said, but they, There was no agreement to that. They could come after me. For yeah,

Alyssa: all the time, unfortunately

I just did that for a creator. She gets paid like 2, 500 for every post, and I just got this brand to pay her 4, 000 because they used it for three weeks, or it was like a month, and we reduced it. And they had to pay her 4, 000 because they basically stole her intellectual property because their contract was only for organic.

It was never for paid ads. And yes, like you're really like you're stealing their intellectual property. Unfortunately,

Jen: okay. See, these are things I just don't, that's not how my mind works.

Alyssa: I

Jen: It's crazy. Especially cause you said you feel like you have some ownership if you're paying someone for something and you can do whatever you want with it. But,

Alyssa: But no, when it comes to like photographers, not when it comes to like creative things, it's so underlap intellectual property, it's not who's paying for it. It's who creates it. So if a photographer is taking pictures of your jewelry or of your brand. Make sure that they've given you a license to use it however you want.

Or maybe they have limitations on that. Maybe as a photographer, they're like, Hey, I don't want you taking out the background. I don't want you changing the imagery of it. I don't want you doing any touch ups to it. That's my creative work

Jen: but if you buy these photos from them and they don't make you sign a contract though, saying that you can't edit that, however these different. things you can do with it. Could they still come, come after you because you bought it from, you bought this, these photos from them.

It doesn't matter,

Alyssa: haven't trans, they have not transferred intellectual property of that photograph to you. So they still own it, technically,

Jen: you bought it.

Alyssa: but you didn't buy it here because you have under the law you, yes, you paid them to do it, but there was no written transfer of ownership.

Jen: Okay. Great idea. Great thing to know for photographers too, right? Like I don't think that's.

Alyssa: If they wanted to screen you, they could, it's always sometimes like you have a friendly relationship with your photographer and you're like, maybe it won't, maybe it won't happen, maybe they're fine with it,

but it's always better to just be like, Hey. Because that's like when I was doing brand photos, that's like what I looked for. I was like I need to be able to crop them. I need to be able to

change it. We need to be able to

remove background because I'm using this for my marketing purposes. And they're like, she wanted me to give credit to her.

She wanted me to leave like her brand on. And I was like, no, because I'm using it for commercial purposes.

So a lot of times when photographers are doing it for personal. For personal use, they don't have as many restrictions on it, but when you're using it for commercial purposes, that's when they tend to put on more restrictions.

Jen: Okay. Awesome. Good to know. Because I've got my mind's just turning. I was like, Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. And I think this is coming into play a lot too. I actually saw it. I actually just made me think there was someone had posted in the group that they were like, they use their own personal photos of jewelry and someone took it from their account, right?

They probably screenshot. It's so easy to steal a photo, whatever, as like now, with online. And then say you were, she, I think she did reach out to her and ask her to take it down. I'm not sure where it went from there, but I just brought me to that story because that is something that I guess, because even if you do a Google image search, you assume you can just use that image, but you probably, can you use those or no,

Alyssa: Can't.

Jen: right?

Okay.

Alyssa: Because they are copyright protected by whoever created them. So unless they're giving you a license or they're like, they relinquish like royalties to it basically. So a lot of the times there's a government website that you can go to where it's it's not copyrighted, but it's for the public domain.

I agree with you. It's it's so hard because it's but it's on the Internet, but that's not the public domain.

Jen: Okay. So the way you can use photos, the way you can use photos is obviously belonging to somewhere where allows you to like, maybe like a stock photo website. That's obviously right.

Alyssa: Yeah, or Canva because they give you the license they've figured that out.

With whoever created it they got the license for you, but that also has limitations. If you look under Canva a lot of people that do the print t shirts get in a lot of trouble because there's certain things under Canva where it's that actually isn't part of our licensing agreement with you.

Or like with digital products, they're like certain parts of our graphics, you actually can only send a link. You can't have a thing where they are able to edit it. And there's

Many. Different requirements. So whatever platform you're on, you are going to want to look for, what is the licensing agreement for the images, the music, all that stuff.

Jen: Yeah. I know the music is a huge thing too. Yeah.

Alyssa: those record labels do not mess around. So if you are creating content for your brand, be careful. Don't use commercially. Or as a business, make sure you're using the business account that shows you what you can use commercially because they do not mess around. They will come after you.

Jen: Is there a limit to how long you can play the music too? I thought there was a limit to that. Or no, is that

Alyssa: No, there's not. Yeah. No, you know what? You're not the only one that thinks that. I think that

was just like a myth that was spread around, but there is no limit. Even if you use a second of it,

Jen: Really? Okay.

Alyssa: people will recognize it, but,

Jen: That's why you can use it within

Alyssa: partial feeling

Jen: You can use it within even the songs we can use on Reels and Instagram, for example. Why is that possible? I guess

Through the platform. Because it, because you can't share it and it doesn't usually if you share it too, it doesn't, the music doesn't come with it.

Even if you share it, you save it to your phone, the music, it's always inside the app.

Alyssa: Yes. Yes. And also there's a difference. So sometimes if you're in tech talk and you use that video, it may that you may not be able to use it over on Instagram because they

have different licensing agreements with the record labels.

Sony gosh, there's so many, but tick tock

has its own Hey, these are the ones that we have purchased the license so you can commercially use these. These songs

and then Instagram and Facebook actually make it terribly difficult to figure out What is allowed or not, but they have their own separate agreements on what music can be used

Jen: Okay.

Alyssa: I know

Jen: Like you said, honestly, again, these are all things to just be aware of and also the things that might happen again, even with someone coming after for an injury or something like that happening is obviously so few and far between. But again, you never know what can happen.

Case in point

Alyssa: it would be life ruining it could potentially be life ruining in a

Jen: Exactly. So that's a thing. They aren't small things. So if something does happen, heaven forbid, which is why we did, why we protect ourselves with insurance and all the things we do.

Alyssa: Never want to deal with it, but then once you have a claim, gosh, you're

so glad that you did, you're like, oh, thank goodness.

Jen: And it's something to be aware of. It's funny. It just brings me to a couple of things I've done that I just didn't even think of like in the past. So there's this long time ago, I had my jewelry on Etsy, one of the times, and I named a pair of earrings, Harpo hoops and Harpo is Oprah, right?

That's her. That's her company. So they contacted me and told me to take it down. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm just a little person selling my earrings on Etsy. I had no idea, right? I don't, I just, my mind doesn't work that way. I don't think about, I actually had also someone. Yeah. So of course I'm, you get scared, okay, I'm taking a job right now. I'm so sorry. Tell Oprah I'm sorry.

Alyssa: At least it was

Oprah, because if it was Disney, man, they go after people and they do not let up. They don't care that you're a mom and pop. They will take every penny from you and shut you down. Oh,

Jen: So that's also something, again, this, again, we could have a conversation forever. Because, when it comes to, people talked about that too, about using certain words that are like copyrighted or even, yeah, the whole, I think using Disney type of like jewelry components and stuff.

I think you have to be, careful.

Alyssa: Yeah.

Definitely. Because, and I would steer clear of Disney

because They don't mess around. They enforce their stuff like no other. So it's, they own their characters. They own the names. They own Disney. They own the trademarks and they enforce them like crazy

Jen: So say you made a necklace or something that had like a Mickey, looking charm or something that you made or whatever, like they, we can't do that.

Alyssa: Legally. No, not

unless you have, not unless it was from Disney and it's a Disney licensed Mickey Mouse head. No.

Jen: Interesting. Oh my gosh. So many things like, and even certain, I think. Isn't it certain terms you can't use? Obviously does that, using, I thought I heard something about using the word smiley face or something, like something was copyrighted or you couldn't use.

Alyssa: Oh, yeah, there's some things that are just like outlandish. It's when they trademark a phrase or

slogan, but there was like a thing about the candles, right? There was a thing about a candle names were being filed for trademark or copyright. And there was like, wait, what? And they're putting all these candle makers they had to rename their candles. But. It has to also be, like, within your same niche too. So if you have, it has to be like other jewelers that have claimed that tagline. So

Jen: And that also happened to me. So I, someone came to me to stamp and I talked about this in another episode, actually where. They, a customer had come to me asking me to stamp this quote in a, like a bar pendant, and I did it and I posted it on my Instagram and I got contacted almost right away, like within the 24 hours of me posting saying that it was a, whether it was a trademarked quote, cause they also had the quote was on many different things.

I think it was like a fitness brand or a fitness influencer. And, this was like an inspirational quote and it was on a piece of jewelry sheet, very much similar to what I made because obviously they just wanted me to make it at a cheaper price. I made this like basically what they sell as well, not knowing that because a customer just came to me asking me to make that.

And then I was like, again, very apologetic. I had no idea. Someone just had me. So whether or not,

Alyssa: their rights,

right. They're enforcing it. So

Jen: Yeah.

Alyssa: Is they're enforcing what's called dupes. And you really particularly need to be careful with that. If you ever start selling your jewelry on TikTok shop,

they do not, they take that very seriously.

So if you were to sell that necklace on TikTok shop and the person notified TikTok shop, they would not only shut down your account, but they would take all the money that was in your account and you would never be back on the platform again.

Like they're so meticulous about dupes. So I guess I would absolutely be careful with that.

Jen: Okay. So on, on TikTok though, like if you, if they're, what do they consider a dupe? Like how is, how do they know which one came first? You know what I mean? Like when it comes to,

Alyssa: they like a Stanley cup, right? So this is a real life example.

There was a creator on there who thought it was a Stanley cup. So I actually feel really bad for her because she was promote. She promoted it and she got shut down. She lost like 10, 000 in her shop account and there was no like intentional or non intentional way around it.

She was like, I literally thought it was a Stanley cup, but it was a dupe. But there's also the thing where it's like. Yeah. If you didn't, there's no I didn't know this was the exact same necklace as this other person's right? The customer had you do it. There's no excuse there.

Unfortunately.

Jen: okay,

Alyssa: This, you need to make your own original works. It needs to come from your brain. And obviously, if

Jen: oh, for sure. But I'm like saying like, how do they judge that? How do they know that you're the dupe and maybe the other person wasn't the dupe? Does that make sense? Like how do they know?

Alyssa: I guess in case with necklaces and creative necklaces and quotes and stuff that would be more of a proof where you're like, here's a picture of the day. I created it. It would have to be there probably be more evidence gathering.

But obviously, since Stanley cup has been around for over 100 years, or Stanley was 1st and

also it

Jen: Of course. Yeah. That's

Alyssa: more of a, it was more of a copycat situation.

But yeah, if it comes more to the creative jewelry aspect, it's how long have you been selling it? And is it the name? If it's Goldilinks necklace but you're creating a dupe of Pandora necklaces and then it's you were copying Pandora, right?

But

There's a difference with we both came up with this idea. And it's not like you're actually copying it or trying to sell it as a Pandora necklace. Obviously there's some creative and given us there,

Jen: okay. All right. Wrapping up because again,

Alyssa: Woo.

Jen: could keep talking forever, but I really advise people to follow you on Instagram because you have so many amazing nuggets. And I feel like that is something just, again, to keep up on. And I even saw you had something about the legitimacy of an LLC. And if you don't have this file and I'm like, Oh my God, like I would have never known that if I didn't start following you and just look through these videos and it's a great way to stay informed.

And then also. Yeah. Yeah. And but is there anything else that I feel like we haven't covered that you think anyone should be aware of or anything that's missing? I feel,

Alyssa: No, I feel like this is a good, like stepping stone of just Hey, what are the biggest concerns when it comes to permanent jewelry and what do you need to look out for? And it's getting your business set up correctly, figuring out what makes sense for you personally. Cause yeah, the legalese is there, the law is there, but what makes sense for you on your business journey, and what gives you that peace of mind?

What is the legal foundation and future that you have for your business? So it all comes down to also more of a personal thing. And obviously if you need legal help on here, if, and when you need me, head over to legal doer, it's super easy.

Jen: so cool. I know it's going to ask yeah, where do we find you? Where do we find you? Legal doer, right?

Alyssa: doer. Yeah. So on Instagram, it's legal doer. That's where I'm most heavily active. And then legal doer. com for my website.

Jen: Perfect. And like I said, we are, I'll link some things in the show notes and we are going to have a waiver that you can. Like a template that you can use. So that's perfect. Be

Alyssa: Yeah. So you don't have to think about it.

Jen: exactly, that's what I

Alyssa: Done. Check that off

Jen: you so much for educating us today and making my mind spin. I might be like thinking about this stuff all day long, but all the legal crazy, but it's good to know that we have you to lean on when it comes to.

Alyssa: have resources. You don't have to struggle alone. You don't have to do this. You don't have to be stressed out. It doesn't have to be overwhelming.

Once you put it down and you have a road plan or like an action plan, and you're able to make those decisions, I swear legal can actually be empowering.

Jen: I agree. I think it's just a peace of mind. Like I said if I know I have things in place or in the back of my mind, I know that, Hey, I don't have, I don't have a waiver. I don't have that, and it's always like in the back of my mind. And it just so it's a peace of mind knowing that you just have everything in place.

And like you said, it's, it might be a little bit. Just not enjoyable again, more enjoyable with you for sure. And having templates and making it easy. But once you have those things in place, like they're in place, right? It's

Alyssa: do it again. Yeah, it's there. It's done. Easy peasy. Yes, for

Jen: Yes. Rather than dealing with the ramifications, if something were to

Alyssa: It would be worse.

Jen: it didn't happen in place.

Alyssa: Yes, we have the headache now is so much better than the headache later.

And it's going to be more costly too. Woo.

So much more costly,

You so much for having me. This

Jen: yes, of course.

Alyssa: absolutely wonderful.

Jen: It's been really fun. Okay. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.

Jen: Well, how do you feel? I hope this episode inspired you in some way. I would love to hear from you. So visit me on Instagram at GoldieLinksJewelry or at my website at Goldie Links.com. I'm always down to chat. Have a golden day and I'll see you next time.