061: Laser Engraving for Permanent Jewelry Owners: xTool Explained
In this episode, we’re joined by Alex, who many of you may recognize from PJX last year, where he was running xTool demos! Alex spent nearly seven years at Sunstone, starting in production before moving into machine testing, application support, and eventually becoming the lead trainer for welding and machine use. His background gives him a rare behind-the-scenes perspective on what these machines can really handle.
We dive into Alex’s PJX experience and the power of seeing real-time results, where customer curiosity turns into true business confidence. Alex shares why the xTool software stands out as one of the most intuitive platforms he’s ever used, plus how the built-in community makes learning and troubleshooting easier than ever. We also break down how engraving actually works, including the difference between diamond-tip engraving and laser engraving, how lasers vaporize metal for high-resolution, photo-quality results, and how that compares to systems like Gravotech.
Of course, we talk about versatility. From metal, wood, acrylic, tumblers, business cards, cardboard cutouts, and more, the xTool opens the door to endless creative and revenue-generating possibilities. While the F1 has limitations, Alex explains why the F2 Ultra is absolutely worth the upgrade for those serious about engraving. He also shares practical tips and tricks, like setup ease, and how beginner-friendly the machines really are.
Alex wraps it all up with an encouraging reminder: you’re just at the beginning of becoming a professional. Give yourself grace, stay curious, and be patient as you grow into the process.
Sunstone Training: https://permanentjewelry.sunstonewelders.com/collections/permanent-jewelry-training
X Tool: https://permanentjewelry.sunstonewelders.com/search?q=x+tool
Transcript
Alex_GLP
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Jen Thyrion: [:But yeah, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are.
Alex: I'm Alex.
Jen Thyrion: Okay, Alex.
Alex: So, I've been working with Sunstone for about seven years. Okay. It's hard to keep track. It's been a fun journey so far. That's awesome. I started all the way down in production.
Just as a entry level guy. And
, I had a knack for understanding how things worked.
That's cool. And I moved to, a position that proves the use of our machines. Okay. So people will bring in stuff and say, Hey I'm looking at this machine, but I wanna make sure before we spend large amounts of money, we're talking big companies that are spending.
Jen Thyrion: You know, lots of money. Yeah. A little bit more than, more than
Alex: Our little welder.
that gap for them. So they , [:Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm. And
Alex: I give it back and I show them how I did it.
I make a report and so forth.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: And so they can use that in order to make the purchase.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: So after doing that for many years I moved into my current position
Which is an application support specialist. As part of that role, I'm the lead trainer here at Sunstone.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: So if someone has a, a question about how to weld or how to do something, I'm that guy.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: There's a versatile role. Yeah. And it's fun and fulfilling for me.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah, so did you kind of just, like you said, grow into that role? Or what'd you do prior to Sunstone?
Alex: So it's kind of an, I've had an interesting path, right? I'm
Jen Thyrion: like, are you gonna tell me something crazy?
Like you, I like the look on your face. You're gonna tell me you worked at like
Alex: a little bit, right? Because I, I was going to school to be an orthodontist.
Jen Thyrion: Oh my gosh. Really? Yeah.
Alex: So it was right before I was entering dental school.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: I had my applications, I had my referrals from. The right people, right?
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. Yeah.
Alex: [:Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And we had a very long discussion where we both decided that's not gonna be in.
A good fit for our family.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And so I was like, okay looks like I gotta figure something else out.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And so while I was in that period where I was figuring things out, I still needed to pay for things. And so I got a job at entry level position at Sunstone. Okay. And after I learned a little bit more about the company and did my research, I said, this is pretty cool.
I like working with my hands. I like figuring things out. Yeah. And I said, you know what? I think I could make this a career
mputers and things like that [:Alex: love for Yeah it's not necessarily I worked with them.
Sure. It's something that I just, I taught myself how to use a computer back when. What was it? Windows 95? Yeah. Right. You know, we talk about how kids can grab our smartphones mm-hmm. And just know things. Right. And we go, how in the world did you get into my phone for one? And how are you using these apps?
Exactly. How was that kid? But with the computer.
It's like I wanted to navigate the computer, understand it, and I just it drew me in.
And so I have a knack for working from computers and solving problems by myself.
And. And that's where that middle role before my current one
Really pulled me in is every day I'm figuring things out. Yeah. And it's all similar, but they have different challenges. Sure. And I can draw upon my past experiences to help solve the future ones.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: And so it's, it's been a very fun and fulfilling experience to have a small hand in leading technologies.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: [:Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: If it's cool, I probably have mm-hmm. Talked about it or been part of the conversation.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Well, it's cool. It kind of just like comes to my mind is that everyone has their strengths.
Truly, I know you're a dad of three, right? Yeah. I am a mom of two and I always talk about my girls and how, you know, with personalities, like they, you are born with your personalities and your talent, but you can tell like, one girl is really great at this and she's, you know, like Uhhuh, she's my more stubborn one.
And then one is more sensitive and you know, you, and no matter how you talk 'em through it, you're like, no, they're born that way. Right? Because even when I think like. With you, like sitting here with me and trying to, you know, trying to teach me the X tool, I should say you're teaching me the X tool. , But I just know that stuff doesn't come naturally to me at all.
Like even if, I were to go through a schooling, a training, I wouldn't be the best person at what you're doing because it comes so naturally to you,
nt mm-hmm. Where I have some [:Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: That I haven't been assigned to make any of the videos really, that I've ever made for sound stuff.
Jen Thyrion: You're really good at, well you did it this morning, by the way, so Yeah. It's just a matter of like, yeah,
Alex: this is what I wanna do.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And, 'cause I'm a visual learner. Because if I, if I were to just get on a phone call and try to explain what we did earlier today,
Jen Thyrion: no way.
Alex: It's a tough, it's a tough challenge for both people.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.
Alex: And so if I can just show you. And if, we have the time, then walking a step by step really does solve Yeah. A lot of the headache of trying to translate what I'm saying
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Into action.
And so one of the, the coolest things talking about sunstones videos as well as, what we did earlier with X tools.
And that's why I respect them, is they have a lot of videos that are slow enough Yes. That the average. Person, myself included. Mm-hmm. I talked about some videos I wanna watch is going to understand, but fast enough that it's not boring.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
want to go watch my binge my [:Mm-hmm. I'm done with this for the
Jen Thyrion: day.
Alex: Yes. And so it's a powerful tool.
And I love being part of that solution.
Jen Thyrion: That's awesome. I have not watched the X tool videos I have to say yet, but just even sitting here with you 'cause I've, I've tried to watch videos like that before, but like you said, you kind of glaze over and then you're like, you sit, so you sit there for five minutes, you're like, wait, I, what did I just watch?
'cause you're daydreaming about something else. Yeah. So it's like, uh,
Alex: you know,
Jen Thyrion: , And honestly
Alex: sometimes in some of my videos,
If I'm being honest with myself, I kind of have that almost droney. Monotone. Yeah. I'm putting people to sleep and I try not to talk too much in my videos. I just wanna show 'em.
I mean it's sometimes that's the help you need 'cause no one else is doing it.
Jen Thyrion: Right.
Alex: Yeah. I'd rather have people fall asleep to me than There you go. Than have Be frustrated than lost.
Jen Thyrion: Exactly. Well let's get onto Exo because actually I wanna talk about that. I think it's a very appealing to a lot of permanent jewelers.
g the X tool the whole time, [:Alex: yeah, I was, and it, it was actually a fun pleasure to sit down and have a customer to business relationship
Interaction.
Jen Thyrion: Where
Alex: I was pretending to be a company and people were coming to, Hey, I want this custom thing.
Like how do I do that? And having real world. On the fly, like, here can, here's my design. I'm like, that's a jpeg and how do we do it? Okay, let's get into it. Right? Yeah. And just figuring it out and then having good results almost all the time or at least being able to have a conversation if it didn't turn out.
I could articulate, oh, this is y. Right. Usually when we're dealing with X tool. There's a lot of forgiveness and we saw that in our videos today.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: But some key things to note their software is the best laser engraving software I've ever used.
It's intuitive. It has built-in helps, it has training, , that it tells you that you should be doing right.
Mm-hmm. So [:Where people will post , on the community that you can access from the software itself. So you don't need to go to a website. It's in the software. Okay. And you can say, Hey, I, I don't know what I'm gonna make, I just wanna make something to play around.
Yeah. We'll just go surf the community, uh, items that you have.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm. And
Alex: then do that project.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: You can just hit download or open directly.
And it will just open up the project. You hit go and then. You've made it.
Jen Thyrion: That's awesome.
Alex: Or if you're trying to find settings for mm-hmm. Example, we talked about special settings.
I haven't posted those settings that we talked about earlier. You have not.
Jen Thyrion: Okay. Not yet.
Alex: Okay. I need to figure out how to do that.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: But it's a matter of just figuring out what you wanna do.
Then playing around. That's half the fun here.
Jen Thyrion: I know. And like, I like that you said that because something like this, and I was telling him when I first saw him when I came in town, I've heard from like two or three permanent jewelers that literally bought one.
[:Alex: coming here. There's some forgiveness there. Yeah. Okay.
Jen Thyrion: Because it just, to someone who isn't. A tech, it feels, it's just, and it's probably something in my mind I need to switch off and be like, you know, it's not that scary, but I think right away I see a machine, I'm like, it's scary.
It's scary, you know, but it's literally just one step in front of the other.
Alex: Well, yeah. And maybe it's a little bit more intimidating. Yeah. I mean, for most of the users or the listeners that are listening. Yeah. It's When, how did you feel when you first got your welder? Oh, for sure. Intimidating, right?
Oh, yeah. But. But maybe this is a little bit more intimidating 'cause it's bigger or because the, it's green, the word lasers involved, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's, I would say it's just as intimidating. Mm-hmm. Or just as difficult. Mm-hmm. You just need to understand what the variables are and the nice things.
There's, yes. There's videos for that.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: There's education.
And what we found discovered this morning is there's actually a full blown course from X tool.
st watch the videos and have [:And not be standing alone.
'cause again, the community's there.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. So I have to say this, we did record some videos that were, I'm going to supply within my membership, because there are plenty of women that are considering it, already have one, like I said, and most that have one. Mm-hmm. Either have used it and they're stuck and they kind of stopped because actually, while you were in your meeting, so Alex taught me this morning for a few hours, he had a meeting.
So I played by myself. I'm proud to say I did engrave two things by myself. And they turned out great. And they turned out great. Yeah. Yeah. And I did different settings with either both of them, but I, I actually did a live in my membership and I re, I was showing when I was doing it. Mm-hmm. And someone already commented, 'cause she has next tool, and she's like, what settings did you use?
And they used did one pass because I never can get it to look like that. So that's the thing, right. Playing around with settings. And granted, I feel like you narrowed down, like you said, you kind of nailed down the settings at PGX, correct?
Alex: Yeah. To kinda, so just on one of the mornings where I'm like, yeah, it's not the, it's not engraving silver the way I want it to.
And because of my [:I found out with silver specifically, I needed to crank up that power.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Now this is important to note. These settings were for the F1 Ultra,
Jen Thyrion: right?
Alex: I can't get the same results that we are seeing today with just the F1.
Do
Jen Thyrion: you guys even have an F1 in here?
Alex: I don't even hear one. You don't even have one.
Jen Thyrion: Well, I was gonna say what the price
Alex: difference is so small, right? That I don't recommend going to the F1.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: In fact, it's almost worth it if you do have just F1 to just upgrade.
Jen Thyrion: I was gonna ask that , why would you get an F1 over an ultra at this point, right point?
I don't know this point. I, I don't know. Yeah. Okay.
Alex: Maybe portability if you're only doing, wood and coasters and
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: And more. But since everyone's listening boutique type stuff, and
Jen Thyrion: granted people can, that's what's cool about it. I mean, of course, my focus right now and our focus, even creating these videos is to make.
wanted to make ornaments for [:Again, with the metals we're using in the videos to kind of get you jumpstarted to say, okay, this is kind of what you need. And kinda those simple things to get going. But I have to say, even when you left, I, I experimented it didn't feel scary. 'cause of course, watching you and taking it in and it does feel more intuitive, I have to say.
That's this program compared to I, I know I told you, and I might have mentioned this before, but I do have an engraver at home. I've had it for two years. It took me a year to even use it as well. So it's like,
Alex: and this is your scoring one, right? This is my
Jen Thyrion: scoring one. It's a gtech, so it's actually diamond tip engraving.
It's not the same. Yeah. So can you actually, now that I kind of veered off in that direction, can you speak to what this does? How it engraves, versus the My diamond tip?
Alex: Yeah. Yeah, because I was using my hands a lot when I was talking. I know, I know. I do the
Jen Thyrion: same thing.
Alex: So, essentially what a scoring tip does right, is it will lower this very hard material diamond Yep.
his case, right. And it will [:And what the laser's doing is it's a. And we can't perceive it, but it's flickering on and off about, I think it was 30,000. Yeah. 30,000 times per second off and on.
Crazy.
Jen Thyrion: Crazy.
Alex: And so think of it like a, a light version of a jackhammer.
If, and I don't know if that's a a good analogy, but what's happening is it's flickering on, off and on and it's vaporizing metal. Vaporizing
Jen Thyrion: it.
Alex: Yeah. Okay. So it's hitting it hard enough that it's vaporizing it to pull it out.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: And since it's so exact
Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm. And it's
Alex: a laser, you can get really sharp detail at very small resolutions.
Jen Thyrion: Very cool. And I think
Alex: that's where, where we really saw the difference between your gtech
Jen Thyrion: Yes. And the laser. Yep.
, and you can do all of that [:Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: The trade off right, is your gravitt has a different surface appearance.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: And so. That was the things that we were navigating earlier today is, well, what, what looks better? Well, it depends.
Jen Thyrion: It depends. That's what I'm thinking too. That's why I'm actually, what what's
Alex: your vision
Jen Thyrion: exactly.
And like, so when I had decided to purchase, once I, I saw you at PJX and we played around, we did a couple, , connectors that just had my handwriting with, I love you. 'cause I thought I could make something for my girls, right? And once I did that, I was like. I'm getting one of these, like I knew, like, I'm like them impulsive, but I also know the way that you can do the handwriting tool on this.
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The fact is I could not do it. And also even if I could do it on my gravitate, 'cause the system I got that actually never ended up working for me it just would not connect and the software wouldn't work. And I had a trainer come out and everything, it just didn't work. But just the way you can do it on X tool is so.
ou can't see your signature, [:Alex: It's like that's supposed to pass. I
Jen Thyrion: know. And, and that's what it is.
And so like you can't even see what you're drawing on the grab tap. Does that make sense?
Alex: Oh, gotcha. Yes.
Jen Thyrion: It's like, it's like a white pad and you can't see it until you're done. Oh man. That's rough. And then, so this one, that's the biggest draw too for me. I was like, oh my gosh. You can just. Like you have , your current laptop where we talked about if you have an iPad or.
You have the what? Microsoft Service Pro, right? Yeah. And I I Anything with a pen? Anything with a pen
Alex: that you can draw? Yeah. Yeah. And art. Some artists have more fancy equipment, but than both of those, right? Sure. There's different programs that can do calligraphy based, where it knows like pressure and everything.
Jen Thyrion: Oh, nice.
Alex: So you can do some pretty cool, fancy stuff.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. Especially we tried
Alex: to keep it simple. Sure. Right. I was using paint if. For the Microsoft users out there, or the pro design, or, I can't remember what the program's called, but, well, and I was
Jen Thyrion: even telling you earlier, I saw someone use a X tool on a, a random reel I saw, and they were doing it with Canva.
e trying, they were drawing, [:Alex: capture mm-hmm. The authentic handwriting, right. From whoever you're trying to capture.
Right. If it's grandma, mom, dad, your kids, yes. All of it. Sometimes it might be necessary for those people who don't wanna buy a special laptop or iPad.
You can just get , a felt tip marker.
And I would recommend black and then have them write on a piece of paper and then you can scan that in and we can achieve a similar result.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. So I love that you said that. 'cause not only can you draw and see in a different way of my GBO tech and again. You know, I know there's probably other Diamond, but I just know Gravitate is a very reputable brand. They've been around for a while. But also if say you wanted that same concept where someone, I picture someone bringing something to me that someone wrote down, they're no longer here.
d to trace it. Oh no. Little [:It's a button. Literally it seems so easy. It's
Alex: it's single button.
Jen Thyrion: Crazy.
Alex: Right. So that, that alone was like, I'm, I'm done. I need this. And that's the cool world that we live in. Really.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Is 'cause I, I remember those days.
Because I, again, 'cause I like teaching myself this stuff Sure. Is, uh, is I have experience in Illustrator and Photoshop and other things like that.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And back in the day. Before you have single click options, you had to by hand
Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm. Under
Alex: high magnification, trace everything out.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: And sometimes you mess it up, you have to start over.
And so that it is a blessing that this, that the software is smart enough for one. 'cause it traces very tightly.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. '
Alex: cause it could have a, a weak trace and it, it wouldn't turn out the same.
e all those colors and clean [:Jen Thyrion: So,
Alex: doing more complicated stuff like that, you're able to not go back to your designer and be like, Hey, I need a, a black and white image of, of my logo.
Sometimes you can just finagle it right there in the software. Yes. Especially if you have a rush job. Or you have a customer sitting right next to you.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Then you can, you can get on with it. The thing I would encourage,
Jen Thyrion: yeah.
Alex: As a owner of the next tool, try and put a lot of the digital asset requirements on them
While still being flexible enough to offer that service.
Because if they can give you a high resolution image, it's always gonna be better.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Than taking a picture of a picture or. So on.
Because you wanna make sure whatever you put your name on is gonna be the best quality.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. Yeah. And then just takes away from steps that you have to do because as we know, we can improve, improve, image it faster.
. And like you said, they do [:But, um, because I have the ones I made at home here with the diamond tip, but they do have different looks. They just have different looks and different capabilities. And one's not bad, one's not good. They're just both just different. And they have their both to have their strengths, I think. Yeah. You know, depending on what look you're going for and whatnot.
Alex: Exactly right. So,
Jen Thyrion: okay.
Alex: There's, there's certain designs that I would rather have on a diamond tip Sure. Than griping.
Jen Thyrion: I guess you said it before about do you think that really it's just a matter of getting in there? Also again, speak to the intuitiveness. I've always said, even with my Gravitt tech software.
I think a lot of women listening are probably like me, where again, they're not all like very techy. And the most tech we get into in designing is in Canva. So I mentioned Canva a lot because we make graphics and things for our business and whatnot, and I've always said with Gvo tech, I'm like, I wish this was just simple, like Canva, you know?
Even the colors are pretty, like, it's more intuitive, at least for at least, especially for me, the
Alex: layout as well as the [:They sent it forward in time and called it good.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And it's hard to feel like it's working for you.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: When you're like, I have to click it a certain way for it to work the way I think it should.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Or if you don't do it in the right order, it doesn't work.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: And I feel like here, everything's laid out in a way that.
Without really needing to learn a certain way, it feels like it should always be this way.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Like I know where everything is, I know where the shapes are. Mm-hmm. I know where my settings are. I know where everything can be.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And I like the forward compatibility they're definitely a leading brand Yeah.
In their industry.
Jen Thyrion: Speaking of that, 'cause I know we're talking about permanent jewelry and jewelry, but like we kind of touched on it, but what else can the X tool engrave? I mean, I feel like it's endless.
Alex: Without [:Yeah. I would say the things that it shines well.
Is your wood.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: Acrylic tumblers are our big moneymaker.
We can talk about that for a while, but you can do business cards
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Both on paper and metal.
Jen Thyrion: Crazy paper.
Alex: Yeah. That's
Jen Thyrion: wild.
Alex: And you can, do cardboard cutouts, you can do MDF,
if we just go into the materials choice mm-hmm. You can see Yes. Truly.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And the coolest part is. You don't need to figure out what the settings are.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: You're just like, oh, that's what I'm doing. You click it and it gives you the settings. So I think that's what most people mm-hmm.
Myself included, felt intimidated by laser engravers at the very beginning.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Where it's like, okay, there's a lot of sliders.
Jen Thyrion: I
Alex: don't know what's gonna happen when I do this.
And so having. Predetermined settings
Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm.
Alex: Removes a lot of that anxiety , of making those choices.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: You just select it [:Jen Thyrion: And I was impressed with, even when we logged in and we're gonna beginning a project, we like got distracted by all the different projects that are in there and all the information that is in there. Once you go in there to create a project, it's all there. And then you even noticed updates.
Also something I hate to keep comparing, just all I know. I'm not saying trying to say anything bad about gtech. They obviously, it is an amazing machine. A lot of higher end companies use it, but you don't get updates like that. Like you'd have to get the new latest software, like you'd have to purchase that or somehow upgrade.
It's a symptom that
Alex: they're paying close attention. Yeah. To what needs to be fixed.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And they're not making very far intervals. Mm-hmm. But big changes, right. They're making. All the small changes that need to be made along the way.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And not so often that it's annoying, right? Sure. When you open up the software, but enough where you're like, okay,
Jen Thyrion: yeah, they
Alex: caught bugs, they got features.
That's awesome. Let's adamant.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
or it. That's the best part. [:Jen Thyrion: Yeah. I would think like we notice some AI stuff in there. We think even with AI becoming, there's gonna be more and more crazy options in there
Alex: From the first day I used it, which was a couple of years ago with just the F1.
Yeah. To now the software is a world of difference really in a very good way. Wow. So the AI features that are built into the, the software. Mm-hmm. So if you need to take an image and put a different look on it because you want to Yeah. It's part of your vision. Sure. Or you want to create a shape or a logo that's mm-hmm.
You can't find anywhere. Yeah. Basically. If you don't have Canva already
You can do everything in-house in the app. That's cool. And when you sign up and make your account, they give you 200 credits just to play around so that you can see if the AI features or, or the other features that use the credits are worth it.
Jen Thyrion: Yes. Because
is well spent. [:I think that. Between all of that, it's robust.
And let's just say , you got a different engraver
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Within the X Tool family. Yeah. It uses the same software and it knows based off of the machine that's plugged into it and what's connected, what settings you should be using.
And if you look in the community, it tells you which machines are compatible with that project.
Jen Thyrion: That's cool. It's
Alex: very cool.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah, I
Alex: could go on and on.
Jen Thyrion: I know it really is the more you talk about it. 'cause like I said, I think it's also a good thing I'm talking to you and I can speak to this because I do have something to compare it to, but so the comparison, even I was telling him with, you know, diamond tip, obviously you need the piece to be in its place and you need to be tight.
e, what do you mean you just [:Like, that's it. I was like, weird. Like, you don't have to tie it down or anything. He's like, no, it's a laser. Hello. And then you just a couple settings and it detects the size and takes a picture and I'm just like. This is crazy. Yeah. It's
Alex: like there's so many automated features in here that make it just like a breath of fresh air.
It
Jen Thyrion: really is. And it's, I think you can begin
Alex: to making money rather than get to mm-hmm. Going through a whole education process.
Jen Thyrion: Yes. I think also depending on how you're gonna use it, but I think for the most of us, we might be making things with the customer sitting right there. And that's for me, when my mind came to like.
This would be so much easier. Whereas I feel like gtech, I might be throwing some F-bombs around when I create things on the gtech. Yeah. And eventually I get there and it turns out to be beautiful, but it's not as intuitive in that work keeps coming up. Whereas if I'm sitting down with a customer and trying to create something for it, it's not as pleasurable, I should say, or easy.
Then, you know, well, and I'm gonna,
Alex: I'm gonna compare it to doing PJ work, right?
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
you're learning on the fly. [:Because not every file that you work with is gonna be the same. Yeah. Not every logo's gonna be the same.
And so we live in a world of now, right?
And so if you're, if they're sitting there and you're really stressed because they're, they're sitting there and you don't wanna mess up.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: After you get comfortable with this, honestly. Mm-hmm. That entire time during PJX, I'm like. Basically on the hard ones, I'm like, I don't know, but let's, uh, let's figure it out.
Let's figure it out. Yeah. Right. And everything went really smoothly because That's awesome. Again, the softwares bust and the customers are nice. Yeah. I mean, some people had to wait maybe five or 10 minutes.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.
Alex: But that same day, that's the service people want. They don't wanna come back later.
Sometimes people , they have work, right? Mm-hmm. They have events. They want to spend two days mm-hmm. Getting one thing.
graver, I should say, that I [:Yeah. So there isn't as much information out there for you. You can dig and find things on YouTube, but it's not like this. I mean, even today, we literally just looked up something super quick and with YouTube video and it was boom, you know, we knew the answer. Yeah. So
Alex: This is something we didn't talk about.
Let's say,. You're burning the midnight oil. Right? Right. And you get stuck. You can't call anyone. Everyone's closed. Sure. Yeah. One of the things that I highly respect, X tool as well, is if you go to xto.com
There's a page called Academy where you can do the education, and it breaks up to beginner, intermediate, and advanced.
And again, I don't think you pay for any of this. Mm-hmm. It's just education. But on top of that, let's say something goes wrong. On the bottom right hand corner of that page.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Or on any page on their site, there's a little picture of a girl with a headset.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: If you click on that, it's a trained AI on everything X tool.
n be like, Hey, I'm having a [:Jen Thyrion: Interesting. And if
Alex: it, and it will also generate typically. A video that corresponds with that answer.
Jen Thyrion: Wow.
Alex: And so if it can't, for whatever reason, answer your question
Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm.
It'll
Alex: say contact this, group, right?
Or this email.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And they're pretty responsive. And so it goes from a, okay, I got my answer tonight, or I'll get my answer tomorrow. I'm gonna go bed. Right? Yeah. Rather than. Getting frustrated and then trying to work through it, and then it's getting worse.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.
Alex: It's really nice to have that as an option.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Right. No, and have, and have something give you an articulated answer when maybe you don't, have the ability to
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: Put everything that you're seeing in into words. Yes. You're like, it's broken.
Yep. You could even say that.
It's like, okay, try this, try this, try this.
Jen Thyrion: [:The old one didn't really correct me if I'm wrong 'cause we talked about this. 'cause I had, always heard with permanent jewelers using the F1 before the ultra that it would not really engrave but more mark and it would come off over time. So I was like, that's not what I want.
Like I want something that's gonna last. This is for permanent jewelry, da, da, da. So that's why I decided to get what I had. I have purchased and then the Ultra, I think came up really around the same time. Yeah. You know, probably the next day after I bought it, it was like, boom, ultra, like
Alex: Yeah. So, so it, I mean, I wanna speak to that just during this podcast Yeah.
erial, changing the surface. [:Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: Right? Right. And so if you want, if you want a long lasting design or name or handwriting
Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm.
You
Alex: wanna remove material.
Jen Thyrion: And how
Alex: much a remove is how long it's gonna last.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: Because with these fine jewelry pieces, jewelry is soft, it's fine.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: If it's. It's not stainless steel that can handle a beating.
It rubs, believe it or not, you can polish things with your skin over time.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And so stuff gets removed off and it's just the nature of, of life. Mm-hmm. And so if you can engrave stuff deep then you have a lasting product, especially as we talked about.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: If it's a deceased family member or a friend.
And you're capturing that for them. It's gonna be a long memento of that cherished person,
Jen Thyrion: right?
Yeah, because correct me, so was F1 not really able to engrave?
Alex: No. Okay. So [:The F1 still was a, a combo laser. Okay. So it had a, I believe it was a 10 wat blue light laser.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: And a two wat. Infrared laser or IR fiber is what it says in the software.
And the F1 ultra is a 20 watt of each.
Jen Thyrion: Wow. Yeah. Big difference. So,
Alex: so the big difference in performance. Mm-hmm. And going back to price, it's a small jump in price. Yes. And so that's where you're not paying through the nose for so much more potential projects that you can take on. Mm-hmm. And so. I maybe you sacrifice on portability just a little bit.
Mm-hmm. But I think that's a well worth the sacrifice,
Jen Thyrion: right? Yeah. , A lot of people listening are just mobile, right? They don't have an actual brick and mortar or like a stationary place. How easy is this to travel with? Would you suggest to travel with it or, uh, I,
Alex: I've toyed around with it.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: The thing that I would [:Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: And I would it the one where you can cut out the foam.
Jen Thyrion: Yes,
Alex: I know. Yep. And you can get those for not very much. Okay. Especially if you get a knockoff brand. Yeah. And so I would cut out so it just fits perfect.
It's a square for heaven's sakes. It is, yes. It's a perfect, and so you just want enough foam so it doesn't jostle around. It is a laser, so you need to treat it with respect, but. I'll slide it in. Mm-hmm. And I'll create two channels so I can lift it out and I'll put the spine of the engraver. Mm-hmm.
Facing down. So when I lift it out, I'm not stressing that green lid that protects, I don't put any strain on this here. So I'm lifting from both sides of the back of the spine. It will pull right out. Yeah. It's easy. Nice. And a lot of those pelican cases were similar. Mm-hmm. They have wheels, so you just roll 'em around.
It's not a big deal.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And so for me the hassle would be more finding the right case for me.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
er I'm gonna do. Mm-hmm. And [:Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: You can do demos or quick pieces.
Jen Thyrion: Because how, it probably tells you, I mean, that's the easy thing to look up.
I was just wondering how heavy it is. But that's probably easy thing to look at. Heavy. It's not heavy.
Alex: So I would say about 30 pounds.
Jen Thyrion: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Maybe 35. So actually, yeah. A lot easier also than my other machine. But let's it's let's, it looks
Alex: heavier than it is. Right. But there's not really much to, it just has lasers.
Usually the case is the heaviest
Jen Thyrion: part. And then let's speak to ventilation. So if you're doing metal, do you feel like that's something you're gonna need to take with you, or it depends on what you're doing? I'll say this.
Alex: Yeah. It depends. Right. Okay. Because if we're cutting out and we're trying to, if you have thinner pieces of metal, you can cut 'em out.
the filtration system Okay. [:Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: That if you're doing like acrylics, plastics, leather
Any of those mm-hmm.
They stink on top of it not being great to breathe in. Right.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: And so I'd get it for that specifically as well, if you're ever doing any of those.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: And of the two, I like the bigger of the two vacuums. Mm-hmm. Because if you're running it for long periods of time, the smaller vacuum can kind of get worn out.
Mm. And it might, uh, overheat and get put out on you.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: So you get better performance, better filters and so on. Now, for those people who are doing fine jewelry, we're talking 14 karat gold and sterling silver exclusively.
Excluding gold fill. You wanna be able to reclaim. Those metals.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Because we're vaporizing it shore, but over time that metal does add up.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And I gave you this example where we have jewelers, full-sized jewelers that do the same thing with some different lasers that are more industrial.
r a couple of beers and they [:Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: That they were able to reclaim. There's value in it that can pay it back as well as Sure. Your everyday life of managing the fumes.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: If you're outside, it may not matter as much unless you're doing wood and lar acrylic.
Jen Thyrion: Okay.
Alex: Because you don't want to bother other people there in their own booths, right?
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.
Alex: So
Jen Thyrion: yeah,
Alex: it's more of a courtesy at that point. 'cause if you have, well then tion, you'll be fine. But if you're indoors, most of the time,
Jen Thyrion: yes.
Alex: Make sure you have a vacuum.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. Okay. And those are offered through, if you're one offs like
Alex: we were doing today. Yeah. Just quick little one pieces. Mm-hmm.
Every once in a while. And you're only doing metal.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: I think you'll be fine without a vacuum.
Jen Thyrion: Okay. Yeah. And the vacuums are something that X tool offers, right? That just correct. Yeah. Yeah. And is that pretty easy also to take with you, you feel like? , I would
Ultra.[:Okay. But. It's really easy to assemble again. Mm-hmm. They heavy focus on intuitiveness.
Jen Thyrion: Yes, for
Alex: sure. I don't feel like I need to read the entire manual to understand where things go.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Though they do have a manual. Yes.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And so I set it up at PJX and it took me like five minutes.
Jen Thyrion: Yes. That's awesome.
Alex: And that's, it was a fresh one right outta the box Hadn't opened up, up before.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And so again. If they're if you don't know, and maybe the manual's not even sufficient.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. Go.
Alex: Go find a video. Yeah. Or talk to the AI and be like, Hey, I'm trying to set up this backing before we do this. Right.
Jen Thyrion: I know that's what AI is and it's like,
Alex: here you go.
Here's the video.
Jen Thyrion: There's so many like ways to help us now. But yeah, I just think playing around with it and getting to know the basics is one thing, but I think just, at least for me, I know it's just a matter of. Trying things out, trying different ways and trying, like you said, trying different settings and playing, you know?
Yeah.
Alex: And that's why I like using the word play.
ah. I know. Make it like not [:Alex: cause it, it, in many people's eyes, this is a toy.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Yeah. Let's play with our toy that makes us money. Yes,
Jen Thyrion: totally.
Alex: And be patient with yourself. Mm-hmm. You're learning something that's totally new.
Jen Thyrion: I know.
Alex: And try not to get frustrated because that's where the funds. Stops
Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm.
Alex: To go, oh man, I made a mistake. But I mean, earlier today we engraved on a piece with the plastic still in it. And it's like, but it actually turned out to be kind of cool. I know, right? You never know. The effect was neat and so mistakes can be very cool teaching moments or so True. It might be a thing that you just do because Yes, it in fact wasn't a mistake. It's just something you learned.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. No, you're right. I love that you said that because that's what I think the technology and machinery like, things like that. That's the one thing I have a hard time and I never really try and it's really about perspective and mindset is what I'm trying to say, is because you can look at something like it's daunting and scary, or you can be like, okay, let's have fun with this.
on't know, just rather than. [:Alex: It's like, well, I don't know what's gonna happen but hey, Yolo.
Yeah. Basically. Here's the cool thing and I think the fear comes from, I don't wanna break it.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah,
Alex: you're not gonna break it.
Jen Thyrion: Or, I think the fear for me is that I'm not gonna be good at it. Or I'm gonna get frustrated. , These are the things I think that come to my mind like.
I'm not gonna be good at this. I don't know how to do this. This is gonna take me forever. I'm very impatient. I'm like, I wanna like anybody. It's so silly too, when I train other people with permanent jewelry. It's very interesting to see how certain people learn something new, right?
Mm-hmm. And I have those people right away that they're so frustrated they don't get the weld the first time. And I'm like. You just did it the first time, like Yeah. , And they compare themselves to me and I'm like, I've been doing this almost three years. That's very silly when you think that way. A hundred percent.
like, wow. Yeah. This is my [:Alex: Yeah. And a hundred percent.
And this is what I tell people.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Every professional sucked at one point.
Jen Thyrion: Totally.
Alex: And they need to realize that Yes. They're just at the beginning of being professional. It's so true. And sometimes you can get to professional really fast. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it takes a little extra time.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: But if you understand that, I'm gonna be a professional.
Mm-hmm. Going back to your mindset comment.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Just again, be patient with yourself.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: You're racing against yourself. Mm-hmm. You're not racing against Jen or Alex, or Right. You're friends.
Jen Thyrion: Yes. It
Alex: doesn't matter.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Because you're doing it, not them.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And so what, be it PJ X tool
Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm.
Alex: Or other aspects in your life.
Just be patient.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: You're gonna be just fine.
Jen Thyrion: No, it's so true. I mean, the whole, like, it's, you can think of a million analogies, it's like, what do they say? Like, what something wasn't built in a day or, you know what I mean? Yeah. Everyone
Alex: wasn't
was trying to think of, I'm [:But I, you know, you think of it that way. Sometimes I have to check myself and be like, you know, it's like building a house. Like you can use it brick by brick. It literally happens brick by brick. So I could sit here and just like be so scared to lay that first brick, or at least I could be laying some bricks and kind of building the foundation, building it, at least getting somewhere step by step. So that's what I have to trick myself into, things like that. Sometimes I'm speaking
Alex: of my own personal experience, right? Yeah. In a very short period, I went from, I don't even, I've never welded with any of the equipment here and we have a lot of different technologies than a typical jewelry artist is gonna be using.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: I went from knowing nothing to being the lead trainer here.
Jen Thyrion: Isn't that crazy? I mean, talk about imposter syndrome, right?
Alex: Seriously. And so after, you know, working through some of those. Insecurities, right? Sure. Even though I was confident in my abilities, I'm like, how am I advising CEOs of companies on how to do things?
Like I It's so intimidating.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah,
Alex: so scary. Mean, it's the same thing with all these ladies.
You have [:And you're just like, I don't wanna screw this up.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And the reality is you might screw something up. Sure. And you need to be okay with that.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: Not okay with necessarily making a lot of failure being your norm, but Sure. Being okay that it will happen. Yes. And saying, you know what? Everything's gonna be okay.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.
Alex: I'm gonna learn from it.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And adjust so that it doesn't happen again.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: That's how a professional happens. Yes. You read any, if you want a success story.
Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm. Right.
Alex: If you read any of these now, billionaires or multi-millionaires, they started with those mistakes.
Jen Thyrion: Oh my gosh. I just saw a speech that someone gives, 'cause I'm sure there's plenty of Swifties listening, but Taylor Swift, it was like a random thing on Instagram, who knows where I saw it, but she was saying it was a speech and she won an award and she's like, I just wanna say, you see the things I'm winning and the wins.
But you don't see how [:I think everyone forgets, doesn't realize when you're comparing your day, even one to someone's 300, which you know, is, you don't realize all the steps they had in between that. And how many times they tried new things and put themselves out there and made a fool themselves or made a mistake or, you know.
So I just love talking about that because easily forgot mean all these
Alex: new artists. Case in point, right?
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Post Malone, right? Taylor Swift. Mm-hmm. Ed Sheeran, all these guys. Ed Shean, now that you've met, I watched a video where he's speaking very candidly about how bad he sucked. Really? He's like, listen to this song.
And it was awful. And he's like, he's like, you're not born with this talent.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: You earn it.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
tears and sometimes totally [:Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And the cool thing just to circle back.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: When you're working with permanent jewelry, if you're working with engraving specifically with the X tool
Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm.
Alex: You're not alone. You're not blazing a trail. It's not going to be that hard.
Trying to be patient. 'cause if you're learning, if the skill that you're learning is computers, you're learning two skills. 'cause you're learning engraving and computers.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Yeah. So be patient, you're gonna be fine.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: Everything's gonna be great. Everything's gonna be fine. Right?
Jen Thyrion: That's the bottom line. Yeah. Yes. We're all good. Yeah, and there's just honestly, like, I can't say it enough. If you're gonna start with something, like I said, comparably, starting with the machine I did to this, how intuitive it is and how much help there is out there, , we can give your personal phone number out. People can call you. I'm just kidding.
Alex: I go to sleep at midnight, so. Right.
Jen Thyrion: Oh my gosh. I think he's just a phone call away. Okay. Is there anything you wanna, like end this convo with, or anything else you wanna mention? I just say,
Alex: I mean, with the [:Just know that people have gone before you and. Me personally, I have confidence in these girls.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Even though they may not have confidence in themselves.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: I have helped a lot of girls go from the brink of tears,
Jen Thyrion: really? Because
Alex: they've got, they've got to the fresh stage Are talking about
Jen Thyrion: me this morning.
No kidding. No, just kidding. No, no,
Alex: no. I mean, even from permanent jewelry too, grading. It's just like you can't help but get emotional if you're like. The lies that you tell yourself when you're frustrated. Mm-hmm. I'm a failure. I'm not good enough. Mm-hmm. This is, this isn't working.
Jen Thyrion: Yes. Right.
Alex: Sometimes just take a break.
Yep. Go watch that TV show. Watch it. One episode, put a timer on or something. Yep. Come back and go, I'm a success. Yes. I'm gonna do this. Say those words to yourself. We talk about. Good self talk.
Jen Thyrion: Yes. Right. For sure. There's
Alex: nothing better that you could do for yourself than to do that.
n you talk because we had, I [:That they don't deal with those things. And that's what's so funny. It's like no matter what level, quote unquote you are, you're always dealing with newness or new challenges because guaranteed, if you keep elevating, you deal with. They say new level new devil, which I don't love that quote, but I mean, it kind of really sums it up and it, so it's, it's more or less, it's not so much you stop dealing with those, but I have to say, you get better at dealing with those, your expectations get checked.
Because once you've been through those things so many times you're like, just another challenge. It's cool. I've done this before. Yeah. You know what I mean? I know. I'll get through it. I can speak to that too. Yes. It's frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. It's,
Alex: Talking about my imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. Right. It got resolved 'cause I'm like, oh, I actually do know what I'm talking
Jen Thyrion: about.
Yeah.
h, when it's, once I started [:Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm.
Alex: Then it became, it felt more natural. Yes. When I started talking to myself the way I am.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: Not the way I believe I am.
And once I started talking better about myself, I started believing in a better zone.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: And so that's why I would want to just. If I could, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shake just be like,
I You got this girl. Yes. Right. Like, it's
Jen Thyrion: okay. It's gonna be fine. Yeah. Yeah. I
Alex: believe in you,
Jen Thyrion: right?
Alex: Others believe in you.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: Stop telling yourself that way.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah. Like you got this. I know. It's so easy when you're on your own head, because like if you see, that's why it's like, here I am.
I'm training other women and guaranteed I felt the feelings they felt, but seeing it from the outside, I'm like, oh gosh, you're fine. You know what I mean? This is just part of it. This is literally part of growth. This is what you have to expect, and I feel like when you know it's fine, everyone else deals with it or you have, you expect it, it feels a little different 'cause you're like, oh my God, no one else.
You always think that no one else. Feels the way you do. You know what I mean? Like you're the only one. , Nope, we all have been there when you're
that way but the reality is [:Jen Thyrion: Totally. And there's help
Alex: definitely reaching out. Don't get frustrated, just ask for help. Yeah, for
Jen Thyrion: sure.
Alex: If it's being on Facebook or Yeah. On X Tools website. Mm-hmm. Or if you have PJ stuff on sunstones website. Right. Like just talk to someone.
Jen Thyrion: Yes.
Alex: You'd be surprised how eager someone else's it is to come help you.
Jen Thyrion: Agreed. So agreed. I love that. We'll end with that. I was gonna say, usually , I end a podcast with like, where can we find you on social media? What's your Instagram?
Alex: Just, it depends on what you're doing. But you know the permanent jewelry website?
Yes. You'll see us every year at PJX, right? Yeah. We're a big supporter of that.
Jen Thyrion: Yep.
Alex: You can. Find whatever you gotta find. Yeah. If you want to have a person conversation about mm-hmm. What you should buy or what you should do, or what's a good fit for you.
Just call.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah, I know. I was gonna say sunstone pretty, pretty sunstones
a, a pressure sales type of [:Operation.
Jen Thyrion: No.
Alex: I've talked people down on a, on a cell because I'm like, this is not a good fit for you.
Jen Thyrion: Yeah.
Alex: You should not do this.
Jen Thyrion: Okay. Yeah.
Alex: And I, I feel that's one of the things I appreciate about Sunstones is the level of honesty.
Jen Thyrion: I agree. It feels very homey here. Like it feels so chill.
Like I could just, , I love that I, yeah. I'm like,
Alex: that's why I can
Jen Thyrion: move in again, when I
Alex: found out about this, I'm like,
Jen Thyrion: I can make
Alex: this a career like this feels
Jen Thyrion: good. Yes.
Alex: Totally. I would just point you in the direction of others who are.
Jen Thyrion: I
Alex: can't be everywhere, but there's a lot of people I trust to Oh, for sure.
To help people.
Jen Thyrion: Okay, cool. Hopefully we'll see you at the next PJX too.
Alex: Indeed.
Jen Thyrion: Okay. All right. It was good talking to you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it was
Alex: my pleasure.
