042: Gamify Your Business: Tips & Tricks Permanent Jewelers with Dana from Stones & Findings

Jen Thyrion: Hey there, I'm Jen Thyrion and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a former nine to fiver that dove into entrepreneurship eight years ago with zero business experience. I'm a wife, mama of two young girls, boutique owner, jewelry designer, and now the proud owner and coach leading GoldieLinks Permanent Jewelry.

I have a passion to empower fellow business days. This podcast is made to equip you with everything you need to succeed from actionable marketing steps to digging deep on your mindset. I know firsthand the heart, hard work, and let's be real at times of struggle that makes up this amazing journey. You want to know what has enabled me to shine the brightest coaching plus community here at Goldie Links.

We share openly educate and lift each other up. Expect to get linked with fellow PJ owners that will do just that sprinkled with plenty of fun along the way. Competition is an old school thought and connection is the way get ready to feel inspired. Welcome to the Goldie Links podcast. Hey there.

Did you know that we offer handmade permanent jewelry supplies? Go to GoldieLinkSupplies. com to view our beautiful chains, connectors, bangles, and more, including our non permanent stretchy bracelets that are available to you for wholesale. Everything is created by our tribe of mama makers. What is a mama maker?

Stay at home moms that create on their own time between raising their children, serving as a self care creative outlet, and supporting their families. Your items come with signage on how these supplies are made, along with gemstone property info, as each gemstone has a special meaning. If you want to level up your business with handmade, Supplies not made by a machine, but made by hand with love.

Then check it out at GoldieLinkSupplies. com. Now onto the show. OK, I admit it. I have a new obsession, and it's Dana from Stones and Findings. She is a wealth of knowledge and wisdom. So many times during this chat, I got the chills. We chat about our ADHDness, and what she has discovered is a way to quote unquote trick our way to success by gamifying the difficult things and making it fun.

I'm on my way to get the word gamify tattooed on my body. Enjoy this amazing conversation with Dana. Hey, Dana. I'm so excited you're here today. I feel like we could talk for hours. I already know that. So let's start off with you just telling us who you are and what you want us to know about yourself. I would love to hear more about

Dana: you.

Hi everyone. I am Dana. I live in Toronto. I'm the owner, founder of Stones and Findings. And a number of you might already know me. I have been a lecturer instructor at the PGX. I have a YouTube channel that really is focused on small business and a lot to do with tips and how to, as well as on my Instagram.

I share a lot of business tips in little bite sizes, as well as welding tips. and simple jewelry making tips using recently, mostly welder. I'm 52 and we're just discussing uh, how long we've been doing, being entrepreneurs and in the business. So we wholesale and we are a multi million dollar multi national business.

That wholesales focuses on higher quality components so that that's what our focus is. And I grew this business from prior to that. It was just wholesaling finish jewelry and components. And prior to that, I was making things at craft market when I was a university with no money, not quite enough for gas living at home.

o that was, I started that in: 1992

But I think you can achieve a lot by being frugal and focused. Well, yeah, it's

Jen Thyrion: almost like it's, it reminds me of that whole thing of like, if you give yourself 30 minutes to do something, you're going to do it in 30 minutes. If you give yourself two hours to do something, you'll do it in two hours, right?

It's almost like the same, a little bit with money, how I feel and how my experience too, there's been lots of ups and downs in my business. And so. Times where it was really tight, I had to be more creative. I had to make it work. I had to like hustle a little bit more. Whereas if things are a little bit more comfy and I have more money at my disposal and I'm like, okay, sure.

Like not a big deal that I bought this and I'm not using it. Like, or, you know, it just, it seems like you make it work when you have, and it's almost like being minded that way. Even if you have the extra funds, like you said, to have reserve and just be smarter about that, you know, even if you have the extra right, like to be work with as least.

Or less as you can, because it just creates a bigger profit. Actually,

Dana: we were talking about this before we started recording. I have, I studied finance in undergrad and I have a double specialist in finance and economic policy because I'm interested in the numbers, the gaming and you know, the thing is what you're saying.

If you have more, sometimes you become lax and we, it's human nature, you know. We want to buy a little extra eat out, et cetera. And number one thing I have found, because we wholesale to a lot of businesses, small businesses, et cetera. No, I see the journey and I've come to become really close friends with a number of people.

And many of whom have grown from very small, not even basement. They've got an old basement on their simple desk to growing multi, um, locations. And why is it that some have? And some have not. And actually what I've discovered is a key is discipline. Now discipline and it sounds like, Oh my goodness, it's boring.

This is, this is what I struggled at school with. Right. But what it is is instead what a lot of people forget, entrepreneurs are there. They're creative. They're thrill seekers, adventurers. They're mostly,

Jen Thyrion: yeah, they're most likely ADHD, right?

If you're listening and you can relate, yes, I'm an immigrant seven. I'm very much like squirrel. Okay. Yeah. Like, especially if you're a creative, okay. You get into this with the, you know, you don't get into this for the numbers. You get in this for the creativity. If you're that minded, oh my gosh, you know, like you can, you can run yourself dry real fast because you're like, I'm going to add this chain.

I'm going to add this connector. I'm going to make this now. And then you just, because it's just like your world's your oyster when it comes to, if you're just thinking about the creative side of it. Right. So

Dana: here's a tip because I understand, I understand how do you. Blend fiscal responsibility in a way that our thrill seeking, excitement seeking, creative brains, the ADH brains, how do you, how do you make it so that it's palatable?

And you actually coach me right now, yeah. So, what it is is, One, you need to have the numbers, see it as a game because, okay, backtrack, I've just been diagnosed maybe a month ago with ADHD. And I really, yes, officially I had to pay a

Jen Thyrion: grand, how funny we're talking about this. I diagnosed myself, so I, I don't, Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

So does that for you, has that helped put things in perspective for you? Like, but I feel like you already are

Dana: already know. Now, I didn't know until, until some, it's always someone within the circle of friends to say, Oh, you know, I have ADHD and I didn't think, Oh, what? I thought ADHD was the people who are fidgety.

You know, you were in school, they just couldn't sit still and they blurred out things. I knew that, actually, the reason why I know is, I had to get help my daughter get diagnosed. There's a school challenges, etc. that, and as I'm answering these things, like, Oh my goodness, this is, this is what, is that what it is?

It's not the fidgetiness. This is, well, this isn't everybody like that. And so when I finally thought, okay, I see the difference. In my kids, when they have the routine, a better understanding, and I think even if you don't have any sort of ADHD, self awareness is so important when you, especially as an, as an entrepreneur, because you can see what, where the pitfalls might be.

You understand yourself better so you can plan ahead. So I thought, okay, I'm going to do this so that there is almost closure, validation and explanation as to why I'm crazy. The way I am. I'm a lot of fun. So, um, so maybe this will morph into a conversation about ADHD because they're well,

Jen Thyrion: well, it's true.

And speaking of ADHD, I kind of got you off topic because when you were talking about people that tend to, that are like they grow and they be successful versus people that are not, do you feel like when you were, you were going on to a point there and then I interrupted you, but it's like, where. Are you, do you feel like because those people are more fiscally minded or what do you feel like, what is the comparison there of why?

So it is actually

Dana: focus. Okay. And ADHD, anyone who, who, who's just thrill, thrill seeking. Yes. We could also, if they can just gamify the switch.

Jen Thyrion: Mm

Dana: hmm. You really put focus on something that they want to achieve, that actually you can have with ADHD and the creatives, they hyper focus, right? So in fact, you can change it towards anybody can access that hyper focus.

If they, even if they don't have it in their regular lives and everything is like 10 squirrels in their head and life could be a mess, a vortex of messiness, they can. And so I noticed. A few things, the ones who have, and I'd say vast majority of them have ADHD from their, their willingness to, okay, I'm willing to try that.

Um, okay. And I'll try that. If something is new, I'm willing and they're less risk and first, but what a lot of creatives lack is. The money aspect, the, the, the budgeting, but how you can, I mean, nobody likes budgeting. I like to spend just as much as anyone else, but the thing is, if you equate that with success with where you want to be becomes actually very easy to focus.

If you can turn it into a game now, so anybody for a lot of entrepreneurs, people who ADHD years, et cetera, in that category, if you can figure out a way, To gamify it.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. I could, I could literally cry right now. Cause I feel like I didn't even know this conversation was going to go here, but it's like, that is what I've struggled with since being an entrepreneur.

And I have always struggled with the number part, but this is funny. It's kind of has flipped for me a little bit. I talked about this in the past podcast. Um, recently I reread profit first and I'm seeing it with new eyes. And as I'm about to open a brick and mortar and, but the thing is. I, I have become, I think numbers have always scared me and I'm always like, Oh, that's not fun.

Like, right. Like, so I, now it's like, like you said, everything is perspective and how you see it in a gamifying. I love that term because now that I'm really understanding it more and like looking into it, it's not as scary. First of all, as I thought, but also it's like, like you said, it's kind of this challenge that I'm kind of putting myself through where it's turning a little bit fun.

And I feel like that's so weird to say that out loud for myself, because I have to say, I've always been fearful of it and push it aside, push it aside because it's not fun. Like I'm Enneagram seven, two, if you know Enneagram at all, seven Enneagram numbers, seven, like they're like seeking fun all the time.

We never want to be boring. That is the worst thing ever. That is like our, our, you know, what we're avoiding the most. Right. As that personality is like, so it's like almost like. With anything, even like when I talk to people about who don't love social media, it's like, what can you do to make it fun? It's all about perspective rather than always having your mind like, no, I'm not good at that.

No, I don't like social media. It's like, okay, let's change this perspective. Like how can we make it more fun? How can we gamify it? Like, I love that. Treating it like a project, like a fun project versus like this dreaded thing that we have to do. Right. So cool. So, okay. So how can people gamify that?

Dana: One, we're drawn to entrepreneurship because there is a big upside because we don't like routine predictability.

It's not exciting. You want the freedom too, right? Like you want, yeah, all the things. Exactly.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dana: So recognizing that you can even gamify. Okay. So costs, if you're, you're budgeting, you're low budget, like what you can do is I am going to gamify that my score would be for this month, this week, whatever my, my goal.

Is to sell have the biggest margin. So do the numbers biggest margin. I'm going to sell this much. People know that, but we already do that inherently. Um, like I want to sell, I want to create this goal. This is, this is what my, my goal is for. The number of counts, the number of whatever, then on the other hand, the one part that a lot of people problems with is to, I'm saving the money that they, they sell without spending it.

What you do is you put the scoring, put emphasis also on how much you can have the reserve in your account. In your bank account, that is like the, the keeping score that way and how much, um, whatever you buy. Okay. Now it is not a good idea just to shrink down your purchasing because that's investment, but whatever you buy, whatever the, the, That you, then your goal is to use up what you've purchased.

So gamify that. A lot of people start to treat themselves and that is a danger. So that's treating yourself to, uh, like I used to, when I was studying, treat myself to cookie, cream cookie, every, every chapter that I read. I gained a lot of weight, potatoes aside, I'm going to eat a cookie. Now I can't even stand looking at those, those raspberry cream cookies.

Uh, the thing is for yourself, what is it about a game video game? Like you don't actually, when you, when you're playing video games, you're actually not, you don't get anything other than you get a score. Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Like the thrill kind of like. So

Dana: you create that star, that bling, that whatever, and you can do a happy dance.

Something that does not have to be related, and it shouldn't be related to buying an object, going out to dinner, etc. Right? But your focus should be on creating, putting aside an account. Create different rainy day funds for your And the other thing is when just like these games, they, they, that they put stages, you know, you, you know, Mario brothers, or you get to another and you can level up and you create that new milestones for yourself that, you know what my goal is and it could be, I love reach goals because we, that's what the adrenaline of reaching the goal, running after the goal is what fuels a lot of people with ADHD.

st investment, say, you know,: 2000

And so then you create your, you can break it down to small daily by the hour. So tasks, goals, and then you, you reward yourself mentally. And it's just, it is exactly, that's how you, that's how video games work. That's how successful dieting works or,

Jen Thyrion: yeah, well, yeah, it's almost just a feeling rather than focusing.

And of course it's okay to reward yourself here and there, but like you said, with like, it's just the reward of, you know, Reaching a certain point that you made a goal to do just that alone, that feeling and like also the momentum that brings, I have to say, right? It grows your confidence. You feel more capable.

rom jewelry making to like in: 2021

And I was like, I'm going to try all these things. And it was like, I would do it. And I would make things, I would sell them in my shop, but then I would like, be like, okay, now I did that. I'm moving on to the next. Rather than like, my husband always told me, and I hate to say that he's right, but he's always said, he's like, Jen, if you just focus on one thing, but you always start something, you kind of do it, but then you move on to the next.

Whereas like, maybe if I were to gamify, you know, that specific thing, right. And kind of letting that ride rather than being like. Okay, the game quote unquote was just creating it knowing I can do it and move on rather than actually like sitting with it and seeing like if I can grow that side of say the business or whatever product I was creating rather than just moving on to the next and letting that be a game.

Right?

Dana: Mm hmm. Exactly. Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Okay. If

Dana: you had the different goals that you set being the new stage, being that, that is a newness.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dana: The achievement, the gold star or the trophy that actually, if you're able to turn mentally, turn that corner and do that, you absolutely can. I feel. Yeah, you can achieve anything because

Jen Thyrion: when you talk about something new to like, again, and maybe this, these creative in that mind, but because I'm speaking about me, okay, so I'm hoping people can relate, but it's almost like when you do start, say you want to like lose weight and you kind of start this new routine and you buy all the new gym clothes and it's like, Oh my God, this is so fun.

Like, how did I not do this before? It's so easy. What? Well then it's like, Life goes on and it's not new anymore. Like it's not as exciting. Right. So you kind of have to dig deep on like, okay, what's my next goal or what is it? You know, that can keep me going. Right. And gamify it to keep it going rather than just be like, okay, this was new and fun for a minute.

And now I'm like, what else can I do now? You know, like, it's just. Because anything can become, as we know, even like think of our honeymoon period of a relationship, right? It's like everything is bright and shiny for X amount of months, right? And then real life sets it, you know, just even with a business, like all these things we're learning.

But as you dig deeper in a business and you're growing it, it's like also more money, more problems, right? You're growing a business and you're like, there's just more challenges and more things where it's like, okay, like how can this still be exciting without feeling heavy? Yes.

Dana: So gamifying, people with focus on farther, you know, that has made, I noticed that that has made a difference for customers who, who did well versus ones who floundered and perhaps gave up or just flat, flat lined.

So what you have to do is There's some people who say, okay, I just need, I need to make rent. Uh, I'm doing this. I want to save my business. I don't want. So you're avoiding, you're trying to avoid a negative as opposed to, okay, I want ultimately, why am I doing this? Yeah. If you can answer why? Well, because I want freedom.

I want self actualization. I want, um, I want to know that I can do it. There are people who can actually put that forward, then they can actually see. It's just like when you're learning to drive and they say, Oh, don't look at the side of the road so that you miss the parked cars or whatnot, because you, when you're driving, especially on the highway, you want to look instead of the curve, you want to look where you're going because you actually, you lose focus otherwise, and it sounds cliche, but I noticed that about the ones who are really slaying it.

Right from the get go when they're meeting me and they're buying and they're saying, okay, so what is the possibility of this, this business? Is this still a popular, I saw it on, on whatever Tik TOK. Um, what can I do? And I was like, well, this is what you can bootstrap it. You don't, they don't have a whole lot of money.

I said, you know, What you want to do is you want to set the price stick or the branding strategy, et cetera. That's another talk in itself. I love it, but have that and set it aside. And that will be your war chest to expand. And they can, they, because they know they want multiple locations. They want to have a big following.

They want staff. They want all right from the, so some, when you go in, I notice a pattern, the people who go in with the empire mindset, and they're willing to then realize, okay, okay, I don't have that money for a big campaign, big, whatever. So I am going to have to earn it to set it aside, but that is what I'm going to do.

Those are the people who have the discipline, who actually would move and reinvest, grow, reinvest. And the ones who have not been able to do that, they're looking at, well, I just want a side hustle, but maybe a little bit more pocket money. Okay. There's nothing wrong with a side hustle. We all, I, I, okay.

That most small businesses start very successful small businesses who grow into big business started as a side hustle. There's nothing wrong with it. The difference is. And thinking this is just extra and I'll, I'll, I'll see the people say, I'll see if I like it. Well, think of the newness goes away. The honeymoon's over.

It's not so exciting anymore. And there is C. Well, those are the ones who usually stop ones who stop doing anything. Actually, they, they stopped making the effort to book appointments, go out. To try anything new because it's okay. Um, the ones who were able to sustain, but not grow hugely is this is my side hustle and I, uh, extra pocket money.

Well, the extra pocket money is fairly easy to attain to get to. And, and so they tend to just, they, they plateau, not necessarily unhappy, but that's where their goal was. Anyway, the ones who have done well, who've been explosive is either, even if they did not have. The empire building ambition right at the get go and say, well, I just want to see how far this can get.

And I am just going to go. And so they, they're willing to. So that's how I notice. Um, usually I've come to a point where I can also almost get a sixth sense as to how this person is. Going to, uh, how it's going, going to evolve for them, the business, um, when things get tougher, when there's more competition, when life happens.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. Well, like you said, I mean, yeah, like a side hustle, someone it's almost like, there's so many things that come into play, like you said, from the beginning discipline. Mindset is what I'm hearing a ton, right? When you're, when you're, you know, people coming in talking like, okay, I want this versus someone who's like, eh, I just want a little bit of this.

It's almost like also too, but the discipline looks different for that role versus that role. Right. Right. So it's like someone coming in, knowing and sitting down with you, being like, this is what I want. How do I get there? And they also have clear expectations too. I think I really, truly think a lot of.

The small businesses that fail, it's because they do go in with this honeymoon mindset and they're, they don't have their expectations checked or what kind of discipline goes into having a legit business. And then they get kind of disappointed when the, when the, like the newness of it wears away, like, Oh, just making a pretty logo and like, Ooh, you know, like, and then it's like, Whoa, no, this is actually work and you do need discipline.

Okay. You can't, these things aren't just like signing up, you know, when everyone, I'm sure everyone's done it. A lot of people out there and I have nothing against direct, you know, MLMs, a multilevel marketing, but A lot of people that go into that thing, it's going to be easy. They're like, Oh, I'll just sign up for this.

And then yes, it sounds so easy. And it's like, no, that's actually still work too. Right. Like it's all, we all are where we are based on our discipline decisions we've made thus far. Right. So it's almost like checking your expectations is what I hear a lot too from you when you're talking. It's like, what to expect to get to that place is more realistic than someone who's kind of going in with this fluffy mindset.

I've

Dana: actually had to talk. A few people out of starting a business. Really? Yes. I've stopped doing this for, for money a long time ago. Yeah. I've gamified every aspect of it. Uh, and I see that actually that person is going to be more in pain. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, they, they've come and asked me for my opinion, my advice.

What do you think? Should I go with this or that? And I get talking with them about their responsibilities, what their expectations are, how much time can they actually commit? Like, money actually, there are ways of getting money when you want the money, because I was hungry. I had no money. And I know there are ways of getting, you can, you can get it.

But the people who don't have the expectation. Have the wrong expectation and they're not committed. Then don't even if you have lots of money, don't go into it because what is the point? You can do it as a hobby as a craft if you actually want to do it But it's quite different if you want to have a successful business And it's totally achievable for a successful business.

Almost everybody has the capability. You just have to switch it. But I have, I have, and I, well, they haven't called back to thank me yet,

Jen Thyrion: but

Dana: anyway, um, I have, and I think it is exciting, but it's not for everyone.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah, I mean, a lot of it is because a lot of us are used to, and especially if you know how long you've been in the corporate world, maybe prior to starting the accountability is there, someone's providing that for you, right?

Like someone's telling you what to do, what your expectations are. That's the thing is like you go into a job, a nine to five and you know what your expectations are and what you have to do. Most likely, right. To do your job when you're starting your own business. Um, that's kind of all up to you, right?

Like who's telling you what you need to do. It's all up to you to be self motivated and self disciplined. And that can be really, what would you say to somebody to help them? I guess, stay the course. I guess when someone's not, you're not waking up in the morning being like, okay, someone's going to tell me what to do today.

You know, it's like, no, you have to decide what to do for your business. Right. So

Dana: actually, I I have three daughters, the middle one, and I'm positive all three of them have ADHD, but the middle one, and I'll, I'll explain why this is relevant. She is that child who just, what should I do now? Or, Oh, this is not what, and she's next year, she's going to university.

We're saying. It is very different when you move out, just like in the corporate world, you have, you've got the house rules. Um, you're not taking any risks because you're not really paying the bills because they're paying, they're paying you a salary. There is, there is comfort in that. There's comfort in that.

And you need to know, though, you have to be ultimately responsible. And that's why A lot of people, they are, they're in for a shock. And they wonder why, like, I can't pay the bills, no account. Because you're ultimately responsible. And how I tell my middle one, where it's got work to do, but can't get it done, just What you do with that as a business to motivate yourself and to give so that you're not there farting around here, there, and everywhere, not getting things done.

And you wonder why it has failed. What you do is before you even start, you set the guidelines as though it's external. You have a roadmap of what you want to do, what you need to set the goals that you want to achieve and work backwards. And those are your. Basically, you are synthesizing for yourself.

The work that you need to do, the directive, okay, is no longer a choice. Once you have it done, it is so easy when you're actually in the moment after a long day, after a pop up show, it's just, you're wiped. You don't have enough oxygen in the brain to actually do a huge amount of planning. And it's so easy just to pick up a tub of ice cream or something.

The hell goes with all the. Um, all the budgeting, et cetera. So what you need to do is you need to plan in advance, even if it is just a framework on the budget, but do that before you get into the, the, the thick of things and always put a timeline. So that goes with homework that goes with, so same thing and budgeting sounds, it's just, it's such a terrible word.

I know we need to find a better word for, I know it's a fun word. Okay. Okay. Like.

Jen Thyrion: Roadmapping

Dana: or or what's a

Jen Thyrion: playbook, right? What is a playbook here? Totally. I mean, I'm a fan of roadmap. I actually created one within our little permanent joy membership I have where it's like I talk about that and really it's and not to go off subject but because what we talk about again and again and what.

The word comes to mind is clarity. So gaining clarity around where you're going. And even that person you said you're sitting down with who you feel like is going to be the successful business owner versus the floundering one, right? It's like, it's just clarity. It's like getting that brand, knowing that knowing yourself, knowing where you want this business to go, knowing who you are and what you want to offer.

And why, like, these are things that if you don't have that, there's. Like you said, it's like going on, it's being on a road and you're driving and you're looking the opposite way. You know what I mean? You have no idea where you're going. And I love what you said at the time, like, cause I'm a fan of like, I don't know about you, but batching and like time chunks, like, okay, I'm going to give myself one hour to do this.

And then I move on to this for one hour, like, you know, kind of really making these. Whereas if you start your day, like I said, and you have, you have social media, you have bookkeeping, you have to plan your events. You have to contact this person, you have to do this and you have it all just in your head.

But then you're like, what do I do first? Where do I start? Like, what are, what's more important? You know what I mean? It's kind of like really laying that out and prioritizing and kind of like time chunking and giving yourself timelines. Cause no one else is going to do it. No one else is going to do it.

And the other

Dana: thing is some people, it's not their strength. To be able to do that and they never, okay, what you do is if you have great, if you've got a partner or a life partner or someone who is better at that, or a safe person who can be objective, they don't have any vested interest in working you harder or whatnot.

They're there as a sounding board. Someone who's got experience, preferably if you can find a mentor.

Jen Thyrion: I was going to ask you that. So I, along your business journey, like, have you, what has helped you actually? Like just, obviously you've grown this amazing business and started from, like you said, eating potatoes.

Like, so is it then someone there's been there, a mentor in your life or someone like things that you've been a part of coaches or, you know, things that have helped you. I've

Dana: not had a great mentor, lifelong mentor. I've been lucky is that I give myself I challenge myself again, gamifying that I know in my heart, I can learn something from everyone, anyone in the world, anyone on the street, the guy sleeping on the bench.

If you can actively, and I actively, if I am a party or find out, Oh, this person's a teacher, I would ask them about. teaching about, be interested in whatever their success is. And you would be surprised that actually a lot of the knowledge, uh, the wisdom it's transferable, for example. And so my, my mom's side of the family, they've had businesses, they're entrepreneurs, all ADHDers, positive.

It's genetic. So whatever they tell me, the little, little anecdotes. I distill that and I wish I share it with other people. And sometimes when you share your ideas or what you've heard to someone else, a third person, it is a strange thing. You start distilling it in distilling it and you learn from the process.

So it'd be great if you found a mentor and actually it is hard. It's not hard. It it's a certain art form to be able to find and cultivate a mentor relationship. Because we meet a lot of wise people in this world, very seldom does the average person reach out to make the contact to ask, hey, I'm on this journey, can I ask you a question?

Can I ask, can you help me out for a few minutes? People don't have that, um, they've never trained. It's just awkward. Not that they even think that they know it all. Okay. There are people who think they know it all. So my tip is for this one, put yourself out there to actively call, try to cultivate that mentor relationship.

And if they say no, they say no, but if they say yes, later on, you can ask, Hey, how come you said yes to me? And how come you, I've been so lucky. Maybe they'll say, well, it's because you were humble enough or you look pathetic enough. Okay, that worked. The next time I'm going to, I'm going to work on that. So try to figure out ways, cracking the code of what might work for you to develop the mentor relationship.

And the only way you can get that started is to play the numbers game of asking lots of people for input.

Jen Thyrion: Well, I just like, and honestly, I keep going back to that word and I love it so much. I'm like, I'm going to attach this on my arm gamify because honestly, you know, I kind of, I, I've worded that in different ways, but like, even when it comes to anxiety, right?

Like, and if you feel anxious about that, let's say like talking to someone and asking someone that it's honestly like. Just looking at it like it's an adventure. That's what I would always say. Like, and I say, I say it to my little girls. I mean, they're four and six and my six year old, I feel like she already has this innate anxiety and she's very shy and she'll like, she'll clamor up.

And I'm like, just make it, make it fun. Making it an adventure is what I say. It's like, you know, just almost like taking on this alter ego. You know what I'm saying? Like, just kind of step into this alter ego, like who and name her, like, you know, what is her name? You know? And in the past I've done it with myself.

I've had to play games with myself to be like, okay, I'm just gonna just pretend I'm someone else right now. You know what I mean? And my, and it was funny because of course I've always been obsessed with gems and jewelry. My, my, and my name's Jen. So like, you know, it's like Gemma, Gemma is my alter ego. Oh, I love it.

And you know what I mean? I was like, I'm going to step into her today. You know, because sometimes you just have to to kind of gamify situations to kind of, you know, just expand and involve yourself, you know, get yourself out of your comfort zone. All those things we hear is like, you know, the success lies outside the comfort zone.

They, you know what I mean? The good stuff lies outside the comfort zone. It's so true. And I love that what you said about mentor too, because even just doing permanent jewelry, and I've always known, I love connection. I love talking to people and ask, because I'm a natural person. I want to ask a bunch of questions.

I'm like, I want to know more about you, you know, like, which is why I have a podcast, but honestly, having doing permanent jewelry, that is like been so amazing just sitting down with people and asking them about their lives and the things I've learned from people in the last two and a half years doing permanent jewelry.

I'm like, and just the connections you've made and what that's led to. I mean, that's where, that's where the good stuff is. I truly feel, you know, is and how much we can learn. Like you said, from other people, it's. It's crazy. So, okay, tell me how you going back, I guess, totally backtracking, but how'd you get into permanent?

Cause obviously you were already doing selling your handmade and then obviously getting into supplies, right? And selling those things. How did you get into permanent jewelry? Like, how did that happen? Oh,

Dana: so actually that's a good question. And, uh, what happened was, okay, so. So to pay for university fees, I started making things, selling, selling to other students and then summer craft markets.

Then I had a little retail thing. By then I had finished my MBA and I grew into wholesale because actually scaling up, I'm all about scaling up. So I was doing retail. Um, and selling

Jen Thyrion: wholesale. So wholesale, were you selling your handmade products wholesale or what were you wholesaling at

Dana: first? So at first I was doing the handmade wholesale, but I couldn't keep it in and I hired staff to do it.

I couldn't keep it. And, and, and yeah. And then I started my strength is in designing. I can design ideas and et cetera. Um, from, from ideas. So actually I was on, I supplied the shopping channel in Toronto in Canada and private label for Ivana Trump, not Ivanka. Okay. Joan Rivers. So they would say that they would say that it was their design, but in fact it was my design that the buyer, like I had to have a style style out knowing the kind of style that they, they, they want.

And then the buyer would purchase with select and I would produce, then I would make, and then they would fly in once every two months for the next show. And the show would have other things and I would be all the jewelry and there would be a purse and some, and they're supposed to say that they designed it.

It was their idea. They traveled, they designed it, et cetera. And that was what, and I paid by the minute. Like, I had to pay however many minutes my things were sold for. So I had to pay the model, the studio fee, et cetera, by the minute. And then, so I did that. So I was wholesale. Then later on, I couldn't keep up with it.

And I was wholesaling, um, things made overseas. So Thailand and, uh, China and Korea. And I would, I sold to. Department stores. Yeah. Lots of department stores and boutiques. And I scaled back to just higher end boutiques because I had better quality control without the kind of timeline. What, why I started doing wholesale of jewelry components is I couldn't keep up with supplying the shopping channel, et cetera, um, because they would do the style out and then they could order a lot.

tarted stones and findings in: 2006

So by: 2006

Now, one of the first ones. And you no longer have to use flame and flux, so you can, you can create things, not worried about, you can solder, effectively a solder, but it's welding, without flame, flux, pickling, all the other fumes and so on. So I, it was a gift to myself and, um, I bought it, but there was no.

There was no, there was no information online as to how to, to work this thing or turn it off. And the manual was no good. It was a couple of photocopies back then. And so I decided once I figured it out, someone said, why don't you just, why don't you film it and put it on YouTube? Because I bet you other people have been struggling.

t permanent jewelry. This was: 2019

So people would ask and every single time they asked me and I realized, oh, there's nothing out there for that. And I filmed the video. So just to answer other questions that are similar. So we've got 130 some odd free YouTube videos on welding and permanent jewelry making. So that's how I got into it.

Jen Thyrion: So like, cause it's so funny.

It's so funny. You mentioned I've always done wire wrapping. I never have really in stamping. I never really got into metal smithing because I feel like, like you said, all the, yeah. Depending on where I was living to at the time, I remember when I first started learning, I was in an apartment to be able to do all that and like the fumes and the fire and all this stuff.

I was like, I'm a little nervous to do that, but you know, I didn't really have a studio to do it in per se. And I always felt like I would try and I never felt like it's stuck. I was just like, Hmm, it's okay, but I love welding. But don't you feel like is welding limited in a comparison to soldering or how do you feel about that?

Yes.

Dana: Yeah. It is. They're two different things. That could work, um, in tandem. So what you can't do with, uh, no, I shouldn't say that, not that you can't, but there is a distinct advantage with flame and flux. The, the tradition, I'll just call it traditional soldering. Okay. That welding cannot. So if you want anything that has the solder really acts as a glue.

A paste and it seals things nicely and you can add more of it to it so you can actually do a lot of things so that it looks seamless or if there's a crevice you want to fill. With welding, you are fusing what's there and you're not adding more to it. However, so if it's thicker, if it's a big thing, you do want to, for something that's a little bit more permanent, uh, something that, yeah, over time that's secure, you want to use solder.

Also, because the penetration isn't as deep for, uh, if, if it's a big pendant or a locket or something you want, you would have to weld all the way around tack weld a lot of, whereas in the traditional soldering, you would heat the entire thing like that. And then you would put bits of solder all around and then eventually, so it will be seamless.

You

Jen Thyrion: mentioned that. Yeah. The flux. So basically if no one knows, it's like you're, you're, you're heating that up and it flows. Right. And so it was always like, I always had a struggle with that. I remember like trying to get to that flow, you know, point where we like, okay, and watching it try to flow. And so that way too, like you said, it looks seamless because my husband's a welder, obviously they do big, well, big piece, you know, whatever, you know, doing buildings of welding, not just, you know, that are welding.

And so when you're seeing a seam, it's not like, it's, it's very, um, Messy. You know what I mean? It doesn't, it doesn't look like a flux where it's flow and it's seamless. Right. It's like very, yeah. Yeah. So that's like basically the difference. Hey, busy entrepreneur, as you know, being a business owner, you have to wear all the hats.

You're a social media manager, marketer, graphic designer, accountant, photographer, videographer, web designer, business coach, scheduler, and the list goes on. I know how overwhelming it can be. And this is why I created the Golden Link Society. It's our monthly permanent jewelry membership. We have a weekly call to talk about all the things, but not only that, including monthly photography and video to use for your social media and marketing.

Canva templates, monthly business expert, monthly training, support group, discount, and first dibs on GoldieLink supplies and more. My intention is to create a beautiful community of permanent jewelers that want to level up their businesses together by creating lasting friendships and having fun. This is what I wish existed when I started my business almost 10 years ago.

If you want to know more, check it out at GoldieLinksSociety. com or at AllTheThingsPermanentJewelry. com. I hope to see you there. Simply because again, you're, you're such an experienced jeweler. Like what do you feel like is people's biggest struggle with welding? Like what does people, um, what do you see as, I don't know, the biggest struggle?

Dana: For, sorry, for permanent jewelry. Or are you talking about

Jen Thyrion: advanced welding? No, permanent jewelry. Like, what do you think the biggest struggle with, like, if someone is, I don't, you know, people show up and like, they're like, say their, their weld isn't taking, or it looks misshapen or things like that. Like, what do you, or what, what kind of questions do you feel you get the most often about welding when it comes to permanent jewelry?

I guess I should say that.

Dana: A lot of people think, why am I getting a blowout? The reason why you're getting a blowout, and there's only one major reason is the two sides are not touching. And it is the simplest thing, but it is a foundation and that causes 90 percent of the problems out there.

Jen Thyrion: And don't you feel like it mainly, for me at least, and I've gotten a lot better, would you, funny you say that because I'm like, maybe that's why I am, is with 26 gauge, like the thinner.

Right? Because maybe it is even almost more difficult to see if it's actually joined with a 26 versus a thicker, thicker wire. So

Dana: if we're going into tips, what you need to do is see if it's in the camera, but basically actually I have a video on how to even weld 28 gauge. Okay. Yes. So what the problem mainly is that it is not so visible to the naked eye.

that the two sides are not touching, or there is a slight seam, or there's a V in the cut. And what you need to do is for very fine wire, like 28, 32 gauge, is you want enough surface wire touching and then welding right there. So in fact, what you can do is overlap the two ends and then press down so that doesn't become a big blob.

By overlapping instead of touching, you overlap and then press down. And then weld from the kind of the

Jen Thyrion: side is what you're showing, right? Okay. Because when you say that, because I feel like that is such a big struggle for people. A lot of, a lot of people like shy away from doing any fine chains for that reason.

I think it's like over time, you know, it's more or less practiced, I think with 22, 24 gauge, at least in my experience and people I've trained, but like. 26. And I mean, I'm getting a 28. It's totally different, you know, ball game. But it's like, I think that is the biggest struggle. And also two people putting it through the link.

It's like, that's a more difficult as we know, right? Just like I eyeball seeing it. But I actually recently came across someone who had me resize a bracelet and she used the tiny heart link as a jump ring. That the permanent jeweler did, and she used that as a jump ring. And that is very, very fine. I mean, that's safe to say that's less than 26 gauge, I feel right.

So I was looking at him like, man, that's impressive. And that's a great idea, by the way. I think that's so cute. Cause it was just like a normal little paperclip chain with a little heart as the jump ring, right. Um, taking, but I had that thought. I was like, Oh my God, well, Hey, I want to try that, but taking it.

I wonder, like, that's a great tip that you just said, because welding, very fine, thin metal. It's a, I feel like it's definitely like a heart. Don't you feel a harder skill then than the thicker, right? Like, is it,

Dana: it takes practice and there are just a couple of key things. So when you're talking about the heart chain, the heart, the link, I posted that a long time ago.

Oh my God. That's why she saw your video. That's how so what the trick here is. So if you have a heart, the chain, okay. Don't cut anywhere else. You want to cut on the side. Don't cut at the point. That's where she had it welded. I could tell it was the side. Okay. Okay. The reason is you cut it on the side and you, you can, oh, oh, by the way, if you're cutting it, you need flush cutters.

Okay. Perfect. You need to cut flush on one side, flip your cutters and flush on the other. Yes. So, then what you do is you want to, if it's very fine, you want to overlap a little bit and then weld the overlap part to create, so that it is strong. And you'll, what you'll get is a slight ball. The reason why you want it on the side is you take your pliers and you press down and it straightens, it flattens out, straightens out into, so that you don't really see the line very well.

Love it. You don't see much of it. It's not distorted.

Jen Thyrion: And that's what I end with because you know when you do have a blowout it's so funny because like how you said that metal balls well then that's why it's easier once you put those together because they're both bald it's like then it welds right like because they both like they ball up at the ends once they blow out and they're like oh that's way actually way easier and that makes sense because So rather than, and like the overlapping is a great hack.

I love that. Okay. So, I mean, I've seen, I obviously have seen some of your videos, but it just as a reminder of anyone listening of how many amazing videos you have then, you know, about welding and just jewelry making in general, correct? Like you have them all. Yeah. And

Dana: if it is the case. If it is the case that it's not there and someone mentions it, I will, I will answer, but then I would put it, put, create a video because I'm more visual as well.

And it's just easier. And that's why I keep getting, there are a lot of new videos all the time because somebody will tell me what their challenge is. And, uh, I love just, it becomes, okay, challenge accepted. Hello. Hold my cafe and um, so actually it is doable if, as long as you don't, um, get frustrated and you might not know that there's a, there, there's a hack in me.

There is just something missing and you just don't know what the missing piece. You can ask actually for the PJ group, such a wonderful people. You can ask them and they'll tell you.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, completely. I know. And I think that's with anything in business, whether it be welding or anything, I think that's such a, you know, talking about what we're, you know, before with just the, some people succeeding and some people not, I think sometimes it is.

And like you said, this, the fear of maybe reaching out and asking a mentor for, you know, really, it's just a matter of asking the questions and learning more, you know, we all have our strong, someone going into this might be just take on a welding super fast. And for some reason that just like, you know, some people, social media.

Oh, they're, they're good, you know, but everyone has, everyone has strengths and everyone has weaknesses, right? So it's a matter of like gamifying those weaknesses, right? And like making it fun and making it a challenge where it's like, okay, no, I just need to learn more. I mean, I just don't know enough about this.

And there's a way, I mean, we can always, we all need to improve something. There's not one of us that is perfect at everything and knows everything. That's for sure. What do you feel like has your, actually, what have you feel like has been your, the struggle for you the most with business

Dana: with business? Um, actually I wasn't every single aspect of the business I've at some point struggled with, I'm going to say, but for me it is more technical.

As in computers. I'm, I'm a little bit before that age. Now, everybody and my 13 year old is, is way ahead of me on, on the computers. So I do have a lot of struggles. And here's the thing. I feel that when you become self aware and you've tried all the tasks, every aspect of it, you can decide if you can, you grow Your business, all of those things you can hire, hire out.

And instead of dreading like, Oh, I hate doing that. Understand that I don't like doing that. And I'm going to make it a goal for myself to earn the money to hire. I never, I don't have to deal with that. And so. A lot of things I've hired out.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, yeah. And like you said, that's such a great because like we talked about before again, if you don't like something trying to gamify it or make it fun or make an adventure, but then really, like you said, even if you're, you try and you're like, I still don't like this.

That's a thing. That's okay too. Like you said, you can outsource it. So make it more of a game to make more money in order to. I mean, there's a way around everything. Like if you want it, you can figure it out. Whether it be again, outsourcing, you know, gamifying, mindset, mentor. There's so many different, your YouTube videos.

I mean, there's so much knowledge out there and there really is so much help if you're just willing to search for it and ask for it. So where do you see this industry going in permanent jewelry? Like what are your predictions?

Dana: I'm pretty solid on this. Okay. I'm quite certain. Permanent jewelry. Certain aspects of it will be here to stay, just like tattoos were never mainstream.

Now, anytime you want to commemorate something, people go, when they're traveling different cities, some people collect tattoos, some people go to different, different places, they're advertised, they'll, they'll add something because that is their collection. So it will be here to stay. Is it going to be, are they, people are going to, are they arming up to their elbows?

No, not likely. But the thing is, it will be changed into custom jewelry. For anyone who owns a welder, if they're worried or whatnot, no, the way the industry will go is people, instead of, there'll always be people who buy. From, I don't know, Timu, Alibaba, whatever, whatever, the disposable, they'll always be people.

But more and more, if you are offering something that is made to measure on the spot, and they're, and it's not exorbitant, they will, that's the only way they will. Yes, there are sometimes now on Etsy, you can measure out and you can have a few choices where this is going to go is it becomes a service instead of just an item, a product, they're going to be valuing the interaction, the service of having a welded on.

But not only that, even the classic jewelry pieces, necklaces and whatnot, people would want it to be measured and to fit whatever else that they've got going. And also, you know, everyone's different size and whatnot. Can you imagine having something that's bespoke? It doesn't take for you to send things away to get done.

They're there getting measured, done in under 5, 10 minutes. And Having something specifically for them, that there's huge possibility. And so if you can grow your business with that mindset of, okay, I'm going to offer this range and I can be your one stop shop where you're for either birthstones and maybe it down further down the road will be engraving and anything you want to be so that it's more meaningful, you're going to thrive.

I think that's great.

Jen Thyrion: Great. And that's why I think too, I feel like it's because it's the, because it's the experience, it's not just a trend of like, I always bring up scrunchies because I was like, I refused to have wear a scrunchie when they came back. Cause I remember wearing them in like middle school and I'm like now, you know, like when they came back hot a few years ago and I had my boutique and like, I'm not going to offer a scrunchie.

And then here I had bowls and bowls of scrunchies eventually. And again, but if that's a trend that it's like, okay, it's here and it's gone, right? That's something that's like we see it might come back years later, all the things that we see come back. But this is an experience which obviously is so different, right?

It's like when you think about anything, it's like how, yeah, it's obviously a different experience going, buying something off Amazon versus going into a boutique and someone helping you and, you know, curating a certain look for you for a specific event. Like that's a totally different experience, right?

Like even a restaurant, when you think about it, you think about everything you do, getting DoorDash and having it delivered versus going to a nice restaurant. That's a different experience. Right? Yes. It's gone on. Yes. Yes. I mean, are you going to have a better, are you going to remember that DoorDash meal as much as you remember going to a nice restaurant with your husband and have, you know what I mean?

Like that is totally different. So it's like. Going with your girlfriends and getting a custom piece like totally different than you guys just deciding to buy something off TMU. You know,

we all buy stuff from that, those places, but you really do invest in places where there's an experience. And that's like. Yeah. So and evolving with things too. I mean, your business has evolved so much. Don't you agree too? It's like being open minded and kind of like, that's where that clarity comes in.

It's like where either you're seeing what your customer's like, which you love, which is going to play into, but it's like, you know, you said like, whether you go the engraving route or you have other experiences you add on, but not feeling the pressure to do that, but it's like just letting yourself be open minded.

To the fact that you can't just maybe offer those same five chains forever. Like obviously something's going to, things are going to evolve. Right. So, so circling back

Dana: to where I was talking about first order of business for any one trying to start a business is to ask why, right? It's not the product.

Why, why would people want buy from you? What, what is it? What, what is the, why you're offering? So the, why should be. Why I I'm offering this the whole experience, I'm offering something meaningful to be a part of that so that if that is permanent jewelry right now, and people still want it years down the road.

Okay. That is part of it. And part of what but people who want to commemorate to to have a shared experience. It could be a number of other things that within that So ask yourself, not the product itself, but why am I offering and doing the things I'm doing?

Jen Thyrion: I know. I mean, it all comes back to intention. I say that all the time too, but that's why one of the questions that popped in my head when you said someone sits down with you and they're like, I want to have this multimillion dollar, like, well, do you feel like it also, your success kind of Coming back to that intention of when they come in because really, okay, because my, my thought is I always go into intentions, things like this because of the opportunity of creativity.

I'm like, Oh my gosh, I love jewelry. I love custom made jewelry. I've always loved gemstones. Like this is so my vibe, right? Like I'm, I'm, this is why I'm doing permanent jewelry where some people might go into permanent jewelry because they just see the opportunity. So they're not like, they don't go into it as being jewelry lovers.

But they go into it with like, Oh, well, this is something new. It's got, you know, it's got opportunity. I can see where this can go. Do you feel like it depends on your intention when you start? What indicates your success? Or do you feel like, does that, does that make sense? That question? Like, does that like with the reason why you start something?

So I find that

Dana: with why. That's a good question. If the intention, I don't think it really, um, unless it's maligned really determines the ultimate success, but it will influence the type of business you end up running. So for example, if someone comes in and says, okay, I see this as being a really hot trend and I want to make a ton of money now, that's what I want.

Okay. Help me do that. So then I would say, okay, what you need to do, if that is what you want to do, you need to be, have your eyes on the bottom line. You need to move fast, scale up, have the staff. This is what you need to put in there. These are the numbers I could, okay. This is what you need to do. And, and there's nothing wrong with somebody and people have come in to say, okay, actually.

I'm not sure about this crazy. I like jewelry, but permanent jewelry. I'm not sure, but I want to make X number of dollars. I want to own whatever salons and whatnot. There's nothing wrong with segue into building your business and then opening up and having a store to add other products. Right? So there's nothing bad with, okay, my goal is to make a ton of money.

Let's but that would mean how your, your, how you run the business. is no longer artistic, and maybe it is more time. You might want to have, instead of artisanal and organic growth, you might have to have multiple locations, lots of staff on site, and you need to train them, have an army going, and you map out all of the rib fest, the festivals, the whatever, for all your pop ups, and you need to, so it, the animal will look very different.

different. And why some people fail is they don't understand the hard work. It's no longer, it doesn't usually feel you really need to gamify to, to, to go that level. So it's different, but it's still doable. You just need to be prepared to do it, to execute in a different way.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. Well, what advice would you give to someone, I guess?

Um, I mean, I feel like there was so much already said, I guess, you know, but if you were to tell somebody, you know, who is just beginning or just really beginning, I guess someone who's listening, who just started to, or let's say they're in the first year of business and maybe they're getting to that point where they're like, Oh, like I'm feeling a little discouraged or, you know, what would advice would you give to someone

Dana: if it had to be one piece of advice?

Yeah. Yeah. I would say, actually, everything can be distilled down to a numbers game. You cannot expect to meet your, meet the man of your dreams by going on one date out there. Look, okay, you actually have to date a lot, go out. Maybe that's a bad analogy, but basically you have, it has to be a numbers game.

If you want to grow your, your business, you have to make X number of phone calls. to be able to book something. It becomes so don't get discouraged. I know. I don't know

Jen Thyrion: why as human beings, why we think that we can go to the gym once and have a six pack the next day. Why is that? I don't think you've seen that meme where they taught, like, it's so true though.

It's like, you want to see immediate results. And I think also as we're like this next generation, even more because we have Amazon prime that delivers the next morning. Like it is such a different world now. And it's like social media trends are changing so It's so fast. It's like, Oh no, sorry. That was cool yesterday.

Oh wait, what? Like, you know, it's just, it's just so fast now. So I don't know if that, but yeah, you're so right. I think that sometimes it's like we post one thing on social media and if we don't get the engagement we brought, we're like, Oh, we're going to just going to give it up. No one cares about what I'm doing.

Like. It's just. It takes consistency, like you said, and really a better word consistency. It's a numbers thing. It's you're right. Like it's numbers. Um, it all comes down to numbers really in the end of so many different ways in business. But when you said that my initial thought was money numbers, but you're like no numbers in like the fact that you have to go out there and talk to X amount of people and reach out to X amount of people.

Like you can't just do two and get rejected and be like, oh, well. Like, I guess this isn't going to work for me.

Dana: If anything, you almost don't just pause on the money first. Just don't just, you need to break it down to giving yourself a quota for the work. And maybe the quota becomes, I need to get rejected 50 times a week.

Hey, there you go.

Jen Thyrion: I love that. Yes. We talked about that real quick before we actually jumped on how he was like, fail fast, fail, fail. And the reason, because again, the people that fail the most is because they tried the most, right? Exactly. So it's like, okay, keep doing it. Cause and again, the more you fail, the better you, I mean, I've learned, I don't know if you can agree with this, but I've learned more from failures than ever successes ever, ever, ever, you know?

So it's like, the fact that I was always able or always willing to try, always willing to just keep going, keep trying, falling on my face, talking to people. Like it's just, I feel like that's just putting myself out there. That is, you know, it'll get you faster to the place you want to go. I mean, you know, cause it's like, okay, like, cause you can do all those things.

Like I said before, and If you give yourself a year to do it, or you give yourself a month to do it, you know, how fast are you going to do it? How fast are you going to put yourself out there and how fast are you going to fail to get to where you want to be?

Dana: So,

Jen Thyrion: yes. Yeah. Yes. Oh my gosh. I just enjoyed talking to you so much.

I, we talked about this. I feel like we should have a series. With, we should call it something . . 'cause I feel like there's so many things we can, we can also, we can continue talking about. Um, do you, I love that. Do you mentor or do you actually o offer anything like that? Have you done that before? Other than your free, obviously amazing, like videos and do you offer things?

Um,

Dana: I don't, I don't do that now. Okay. Uh, I, I mean, I don't do it yet, I should say, but in my. The ultimate training course that I, the online course that I created, I spent two and a half hours at the end. I didn't realize how long the filming was and, um, about strategy, this gladiatorial strategy, because I, I'm passionate about it because I failed a lot and I got discouraged.

I've been poor, rejected and. At some point, if you can stick with it, yes, I can go on and on and I know,

Jen Thyrion: I know we can continue. We can, we can definitely, we can have another episode, but it's been so, so where can we find you? Speaking of that,

Dana: you can find me at stones, w triple w stones. and findings. com.

And if you were to email sales at stones and findings. com or in there, we have about six people who man the emails and they, if it's directed to me, it gets sent to me. I personally read all the comments on YouTube. And I will reply and I, I love philosophical things because it is my treat for myself Sunday mornings with my coffee and I will reply to all of that and Instagram takes a lot.

We have a lot of people message, but eventually it will get to me. I get alerted, but email is always great on our website. There is the comment and note section where you can how to contact us and. It will get to me. I will. I make it a point to reply because I think I enjoy it.

Jen Thyrion: I love it. Well, thank you so much for this chat.

I didn't know what to expect. And I mean, of course, I expected great things, but I feel like just the way it flowed in us talking about our ADHD problems. It's been, it's actually been therapy for me. Um, I think a lot of people can relate. It was very inspiring. And a lot of things to think about. Um, cause I think a lot of times going into business, people think about all the logistic stuff and they don't think about, and that's what I've learned over the years is so much of it is mindset, mindset, mindset.

Like I think without that you have kind of nothing, you know what I mean? So I think it's so much of it's mindset perspective and just, yeah. And so I think we just, it was so inspiring today. So thank you for your time and thanks

Dana: for having me.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. Thank you. We enjoyed it. We'll chat soon. Okay. Well, thanks.

Bye. Well, how do you feel? I hope you found value in today's episode and you walk away feeling inspired. I would love to hear from you. Let's link up. You can find me on Instagram at GoldieLinkSociety. You can find out more about our permanent GoldieLinkSociety. com. Our handmade permanent jewelry supplies of connectors, chain, and more at GoldieLinksSupplies.

com. Okay. I will see you next time. Have a golden day.